Opps ....... I think I upset a Raggie !

Unlike me (as a "Raggie"- God I hate that term...) to agree with Mr Loudly, but his 99% is about right IMHO.

<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me..."
 
Could you give an example please?


Obviously never driven a large motorboat slowly in a heavy breeze then?

Andy M<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by mrloudly on 15/04/2004 13:10 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Errm, you won't hear sound signals from a yacht when manoeuvring, for the simple reasons that, according to ColRegs, only power driven vessels give them...

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.wignall/boats/eulimene600x800.jpg>The old and the new</A>
 
I am sorry if you think I am having a go at all stinkpots, I am not, I thought we were having a debate, which I am afraid to say is interesting to me in that I am learning a little of what problems large planing boats appear to have navigating at slow speed.

I am also not immune to some interesting sailing manoeuvres that occur in narrow channels that force me to scratch my head in bewilderment as to the skippers intentions or mindset.

On many occasions now I have been forced to take evasive action to avoid a raggie tacking across my bows when I have been under power (a stinkpot!). I have watched them, I am supposed to understand their actions as a fellow raggie, but I have seen skippers tack with zero regard to those behind, without even looking to see. Using unnecessary manoeuvres that could wait until I was past, but as they have right of way I have to avoid their selfish and arrogant actions. Before now I have come around by nearly 180° to avoid and go around. If this happened to me regularly as a stinkpot I would feel as frustrated by raggies as you do, but it doesn’t does it, again it is a minority of sailboats that use their right of way rule as a form of power.

We appear to be driving wedges between us here, this is not a good thing to do, our water is getting busier and we are being threatened with nanny coming down on us to control our freedom, and she will if we can’t even keep our own house in order.

This thread started by a motor boat skipper who got a roasting wrongly or rightly by a raggie after a set of circumstances brought an accumulation of factors together causing a high speed close pass of two vessels. The debate arouse that many raggies DO get frustrated with powerboat wash and were calmly putting their point forward as to why it causes them a problem, I might have been a little finger wagging towards you, I don’t know how you conduct your craft on the water, I am just responding to an apparent attitude of they are only waves get over it.

You obviously use a dinghy in the moorings, from your last statement, so you should see it from the point of view with respect to wash and close quarters situations which is the point people are trying to make. Last weekend I was returning to my mooring in my 8ft tender, under power, when a 36ft Fairline passed me on the way to the marina, he was not travelling fast but was fairly close and was forcing me across the channel as he started to go wide in order to turn into his berth. From down on the water where I was this was very daunting, I was watching the skipper who did not look towards me once. Had I been a sailing dinghy I might have had problems moving out of his way in the light winds. A lot of power boats are big buggers and as said earlier in the thread are quite daunting to other users, especially those who can’t just dart out of the way under power.

Another statement was made about stopping a 42ft 12 ton vessel or manoeuvring her to avoid sailing vessels in the channel, I am sure this is never a problem as the skipper of the power vessel will be preceding at a safe speed that will allow the boat to stop pretty quickly or turn without incident. The skipper will stay at a safe distance from raggies that hammering down the throttles to get out of the way should never need to used as an option, and never be in a no win situation where an avoiding action will put the vessel under the bows of a 200,000 ton ship, because that would be a very precarious way to navigate a narrow or restricted channel, wouldn’t it?


<hr width=100% size=1>J

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Jools, I think with regard to stopping a 40+ footer, you're missing the point. At tickover, the boat will be doing 4 knots, and her rudders will be virtually ineffective making her very difficult to handle. She won't go any slower other than by dropping in and out of gear, and that makes her handle even worse. And she stops as slowly as a 12 ton yacht at 4 knots.

Unfortunately, dinghy sailors, particularly, seem unaware of these problems, and tack right under our bows. A crash stop on a powerboat is as unpleasant as it is on a yacht...

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.wignall/boats/eulimene600x800.jpg>The old and the new</A>
 
>>due to the bizarre nature of this forum where any post more than a few hours old gets sunk to page two or three rather than returning to the top upon a fresh reply <<

that's due to the way you have your user options set up, not the nature of the forum. go into your user options, turn on date slip, and all threads with new posts in will appear at the top.

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
"that's due to the way you have your user options set up, not the nature of the forum. go into your user options, turn on date slip, and all threads with new posts in will appear at the top. "

I have date slip set. Unfortunately the default setting is without date slip and I'm willing to bet 90% of users are unaware of the option or wouldn't know what it was or the benefits of if they were aware it could be set. Thus for the majority of people any thread older than a day is never to be seen again history unless they're of the habit of trawling pages back...

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"I posted nothing of the sort..... read my post again please "

Hey, what? Sorry, no idea what you are referring to, could you be a little more specific? (Assuming this was addressed to me)

Damn, said I wasn't going to reply any more...

Ari.

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"and tack right under our bows. "

Then scream and shout at you for getting too close or making a wash!!

We had one at the weekend. Sailing out of the Beaulieu river in and out of the moored boats do exactly this.... It was almost as if they did it to wind me up, as they were well away from the edge of the channel when they tacked right in front of us.

<hr width=100% size=1>Andy M
 
Well if you have date slip set, you shouldn't be seeing the behaviour you described

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
You posted a response to me, which contained several quoted comments I did not make.

You post started:
>>I write:-

"causing a big wash problem in a confined space amongst moored boats is totally inexcusable. "

and

"I totally agree that in normal circumstances sailing boats should be given a courteous wide berth, but in situations where this is not possible an experienced yachtsman should be able to understand this and should be able to deal with a bit of wash."

You put:-

"It is all about consideration, you have decided that you do not need to consider sailing boats in open water, I am just glad that 99% of stinkpot owners will disagree with you."
<<

I think you probably meant to aim this at Jools, not me

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
"I think you probably meant to aim this at Jools, not me "

Yes I did, I view these forums flat (assumed everyone did, please tell me it's not set to default as threaded?) so I just nail the reply onto the last post as that is how it will appear anyway. Sorry about any confusion! :-)

Ari.

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"Well if you have date slip set, you shouldn't be seeing the behaviour you described "

I do have date slip set, but as I mentioned earlier most people don't fiddle with the options or are unaware of the benefit of certain features so consiquently any post more than a day old on a busy forum like this is effectively invisible unless anyone is specifically trawling through old pages to look for it and see if there are any responses.

This is the only board I've ever come across that doesn't use the dateslip function which is why I don't bother to post here overmuch. Not a lot of joy in adding a response to a topic that hardly anyone will see under normal circumstances because it was posted 24 hours ago or more...

Pity really, would be a very good forum otherwise...

Ari.

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Some people view threaded, others preview forum in threaded. In any event, even if reading in flat mode, the person who you've replied to shows in the header bar

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
You only have to look at posting behaviour to see that older posts are not lost, and that many will repsond to things posted days ago - the fact that new messages are flagged helps considerably if not using date slip.


The current set up is after long and vigorous forum debate - Kim put the question of how dateslip should be set up, and a it was debated long and hard, so the current set up is really the choice of the forum users.

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
Fair enough, sorry for confusion then.

Out of interest, do you know which is it set to by default? I see it "flat".

Ari.

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No idea which is default anymore, I've changed settings so many times I can't remember how they started!

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant
 
"how do know you what most people do?"

Most people leave it at the default settings, indeed a lot of people probably don't even know what options are available. Computers are a bit like cars, for a lot of people they're a means to an end, as long as they can drive them they have no interest or idea that they can change (for example) the climite control from showing centigrade to farenheight, they just use it as it comes.

Ari.


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