Opinions / Experiences of Fairline Turbo 36 & Birchwood TS37.

sharpness

sharpness

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Hello All. Following what feels like an eternity where i've been a landlubber, the process of boat purchase is within touching distance, and i am looking for opinions / advice over the following two boats please.

Coming out on top of the wishlist within our budget is either a Fairline Turbo 36 or a Birchwood TS37. Although the home berth will be on the river severn, there will be various trips during a season, out onto the bristol channel (glorious brown waters) and beyond, and so therefore my justification for a predominately seagoing vessel. Our criteria was an aft cabin flybridge mobo (integral steps for ease of locks on the river), twin diesel shaft drive, l.o.a 40ft, max budget £75K. Having done my homework and previous searches on this excellent forum, i feel both of these vessels fufill this criteria, with the difference being the Birchwood may be better suited for the river thanks to its 3/4 length keel, but the Fairline wins hands down with ref to use at sea. Birchwood build quality not quite as good as the Fairline. Both have high freeboards so boarding ladder is a given. Enginewise (i understand avoid BMW on the Birchwood) the Volvo TAMD41 (Birchwood) and TAMD61 (Fairline) appear to be both reliable units, though i need to check gearboxes for TAMD41 units, and from what i've seen smoke is the order of the day for both :).
An area i'm unsure of is cases of osmosis for either vessel, and if replacement of fuel tanks would now be a given for a boat dating late 80s / early 90s. Would condition of the fuel tanks be picked up during the survey, or do they only report on the bit of the tank that they can see?

To summarize, what are your views, or experiences on these two boats?

As always, thank you in advance for any replies submitted.
 
Not personally owned either but have cruising friends that have run both side by side.

You are right about the river and sea trait's of the boats although I would say on balance the fairline probably comes out top on average other than the fact that the fairline tends to be propped a bit high for the river making the Birchwood easier to handle inland. The Birchwood does suffer a bit in a following sea and does roll more in a beam sea.

Space wise they are both big boats inside but I suppose the fairline edges that too.

The BMW engines do have a cooling problem, my friend had to completely re plumb his to give sufficient cooling. They changed to mercruisers for the later boats which were the same engines with a bit more power and a bigger heat exchanger and oil cooler, but the plumbing is still badly designed.

Overall you need to decide where you are going to use the boat more, I would say for the river the Birchwood for the sea the fairline but both were perfectly capable at both.

One last thing, the Birchwood is fair bit slower but no more economical at sea.
 
Choice of Fairline T 36 v Birchwood

I bought a Turbo 36 last Summer and I am absolutely smitten with it.

Mine is a mark 2 version from late 1985 (no 84 of 215), with TAMD60C's (255HP). I searched the entire marklet to find an absolute gemstone of a boat. The owner was having to leave boating due to family ill health, and the package I got was simply fantastic.

I looked at 4 T36 and 1 Birchwood TS37 in my search, having originally been looking for a Corvette 32, and I feel I got was the best one available and certainly for the best price, and even the highest price one I saw only tipped her marginally by being 2 years younger and with the larger engines, but was no better a boat package, in my view not worth the extra cash required.

She was a bit grimy when I bought her due to 3 years non use on her mooring, and I have spent more than I should have since, having had all the upholstery recovered, new Eberspacher, Galley refurb, and a list of fairly normal to be expected minor issues, but the buying price meant I am still well below the market average price for her marque, which would be around £70k, and She is now sorted for teh coming season.

The later versions had the TAMD61 with 306 HP per shaft, and will provide higher top end (around 27 knots). With the 255's I have topped up out at 23 knots on the GPS cross tide, with Wife 2 kids and the dog aboard.

However, they do drink the fuel above 20 knots regardless of engine. O B will happilly cruise all day at 16 - 18 knots and probably uses about 35 litres per hour at this speed.

My sea trial was in a force 7 with 15' swell, and She was not at all flustered by rough seas, which would be an exceptional event for me to be out in, but I know She would handle it.

The high freeboard and even higher fly position makes parking a challenge, but I am getting used to her now. We have developed a lasso the cleat technique as the high freeboard rules out anyone simply hopping ashore.

Inside the layout is excellent, and the massive after cabin and proper island bed provide a very snug and homely interior.

The engines are a bit tricky to get to for servicing, and I have made some mods to improve the accessibility.

The Surveyors report showed low moisture readings and for a boat which had not left the water for some three years.

I suggest you also take a look at the Fairline owners club website http://www.fairlineownersclub.com, which is free to join or browse, and holds a wealth of useful information.

Finally I won't be selling mine anytime soon, and I don't think the Birchwood TS37 comes anywhere close. By the way with the rib I have hanging in the davits my boatyard reckon She is a full 45' by the MDL tape measure method, and I pay for 40' of them.

Good luck with your search, but unless you find a pig, you would not be dissapointed with a Turbo 36.
 
Hi Jon,

I've had my TS37 Supersport for six years. I can't compare directly with the Fairline as I have not been out on one. I have been on board a few and am aware of their great reputation and good resale value.

Re' the points you raise regards the Birchwood:

Keel does help direction and close quarter handling is no problem at all.

Access is quite good as there are two steps moulded into the superstructue each side.

TAMD41's are definately smokey and I have been unable to cure. Reliable lump though.

Dont worry about build quality. Birchwood did have problems with some (later)? models but the TS37 is solid and has looked after us well in the North Sea.

Fuel tanks seem fine on mine (1991 model) and are fitted with easily accessed drain taps. (I'm amazed when I hear so many comments on the forum of boats not having drain taps)!

Cruise fine at 16 to 18 Knts approx 1.5MPG. 22Knts max (think I had a following wind/sea and Was going down hill!!!

Main advantage over the Fairline is accomodation space, which includes two heads.
My boat is the Supersports which has a large cockpit and no aft cabin. This gives a large lazarrete, easier engine access and a much better lower helm than the TS37 aft cabin.

The aft cabin layout squeezes in an amazing amount of accomodation (especially berths) but is a little "tight" in places. In particular the door from the aft deck is not full height and slopes away from you. It can be awkward to negotiate in a lumpy sea. Likewise the steps are steep and lead directly onto the steps into the aft cabin, quite easy to find yourself in a heap at the bottom! Have a look at a Supersport and compare, it's worth it.

Happy to answer any other questions.

John.
 
Id go for the T36 anyday, the 61a series engines were the best of the run so go for that engine as the older 60b and 60c engines may require major items like heat exchangers and turbos replacing, the birchwood is good on space and packs in a separate dinette in the same length but wont be as good a sea boat as the T36.

The birchwood has the smaller engines in which will have to work hard at sea, the 41 always smokes untill 80c so dont worry about that, but the ms4 gearboxes are the weak link in a heavy boat, the 61a will have a proper hyd box the zf irm220.


As with any purchase have a part hull survey and a sea trial with the likes of me or another vp engineer.

There is a nice t36 at swanwick been for sale a whilke now so may be bought at right ££.
 
I compared the TS37 and the Turbo36 myself many years ago and I bought the Turbo and was very glad I did. I suspect the TS37 might be a slightly better river boat due to the keel but when I tested one at sea, I found it to quite a wet boat and with a wallowy motion. The Turbo, on the other hand, is known as an excellent sea boat and I certainly found ours to be so. In those days, we were too stupid and didn't know any better and went out in virtually any conditions including near gale conditions off Brittany and crossing Lyme Bay and one memorable Channel crossing in horrendous conditions. The Turbo just ploughed through everything.
Our boat was the Mk1 model with stainless steel radar arch and TAMD60C engines which were good for about 26kts max and 20kts cruise. The later models with grp arch and 61A engines should be good for a couple of knots more and I would definitely go for that model if you can run to it. Avoid any boats with TAMD40/41 engines as these barely achieved 20kts. As you've probably seen already, the interior of a Turbo is a veritable Tardis with more interior space than many much bigger boats, especially in the aft cabin. The only downsides are the rather exposed aft deck and the high side decks which make boarding tricky if you're less than agile although many boats will have side boarding ladders.
Obviously some Turbos are getting on for 25-30yrs old now so any boat, however well maintained it looks, will need a detailed hull and engine survey. The engines in a Turbo were not easy to get to and the back ends and gearboxes were extremely difficult to get to unless you're small and slim! One last point. Check out the davits and the davit mounting points as these were a bit weak
 
I had a 36 Sedan (The aft cockpit version of the turbo..) for a couple of years.... She had the 61's in her....

As already mentioned a big tough boat...loads of space.

They are getting on quite a bit now... we had a considerable number of minor issues which when combined with the running costs and the engine access drove me to get shot...

The boat had been run on the trent for a while... and prior to that had come from Germany...

We had issues with the stbd engine and a cracked cylinder head... Also some minor osmotic blistering aft...

The big bug for me was as Deleted User says above... Engine Access. It was a absolute nightmare.. Very very very poor access to the impellers and almost as bad the oil filters had me quite concerned about my ability to carry out even minor tasks.... and the ability to change a impeller was something that I was very concerned about..

She was thirsty as well... which was fine at 24p a litre.....

But a great seaboat and totally reassuring.

We did a PX against a new S34.... which was a better bet for us as a couple....

I would really question the wisdom however of using this boat for extensive periods on the river... we did feel in hindsight that the extended low revs and muddy **** were responsible for the majority of the issues we had with the boat... which revolved around cooling mainly....
 
You see several examples of both of these on the Severn, both seem to work perfectly well. If you have a wander around Upton and Tewkesbury Marina's in a few weeks when the season starts, you will be able to talk to some owners.
 
Thanks for the informative replies. It appears, as per previous searches, that the Turbo 36 is a much admired boat, and reading the posts from yourselves with first hand experience is very assuring. From the quotes it seems the major negative is engine access for the gearboxes / sternglands and outside of the engines on the aft cabin version, and on the sedan its different bulkhead location makes access to the front of the engines very tight. Although engine access is tight, i assume maintenance tasks must be possible or otherwise these engines would never have lasted 20+ years.

I appreciate that having big diesels for river use seems unwise, but i think factoring in the coastal cruising will justify the decision.

As volvopaul and others rightly recommends, my main priority when it comes to purchase will be the condition / operation of the engines; an engine survey, accompanying along with sea-trial will be a must have.

What is the access like to inspect the fuel tanks on the Turbo 36, as i understand if these were needed to be changed then the engines would have to removed to give enough room ? Quite an expensive task i should imagine!
 
Hi, from a Turbo owner.
The question you raise over fuel tanks, I know of two boats which have suffered
perforation, however I understand both were later models with alloy tanks.
On the aft cabin version it is possible to extract tanks without engine removal.

As an owner for a number of years, I can safely say you should be satisfied with a turbo, engine hatches a bit mean, but with the floor up (about 45 mins) everything you need can be reached,
Get around 1.3 mpg at sea, 27knts top end, when clean, with full cruising gear.

NO! I'm not selling mine.
 
You should also consider the Birchwood TS39, it's a differnet boat from the '37 and more modern. It's wider and has no keel. It has a fully planing hull and fitted with Iveco 300hp engines does 28kts.

I had one for 7 years on the Severn, no probs except the high freeboard. I know my old boat is up for sale at Upton, inside your budget. It was in top class condition when I sold it 4 years ago. I haven't been to Upton since.

I had no problems on the river, easy to control and a much better option than the TS37, you ought to have a look.

Ps. That's it in my avatar
 
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Looks like turbo 36 are still making good money, one went under offer in Torquay not far under the asking price, though its described as a minter.

Thats given me some faith in the under 100k bracket that boats are starting to move, between 180 and 250k there also seems to be some boats moving now.
 
Fairline owners forum

Hi,
I cannot speak for the Birchwood but we nearly bought a T36 this year... ended up spending more but that is another story. Everyone here was very helpful (as you have read) but I would also recommend the Fairline owners forum as there were a good many people who owned T36s willing to discuss everything from engine size to exhaust bellows!!

Enjoy the search!
 
B37.jpg

T36.jpg

both from 25 years of MotorCruisers. MBM.
 
I appreciate the replies and the info being given, all very helpful.

With regards the Turbo 36 (Aft cabin) it is encouraging to hear that engine access is possible, if not involving a bit of furniture moving for to give full access - it seems some of you have have done mods to your boats to improve things on that score. Hearing that the engines wouldn't need to be removed should fuel tanks ever need changing (only thinking of the what if situation...) is also very positive.

Good idea about the fairline owners club, i will look into that.

(Bloater) With ref the Birchwood TS39 at Upton, I know the boat you mean, very different hull to TS37 as you rightly point out, though on the listings i think she was nearer £90K. Unfortunately from the photos the white interior woodwork wasn't pleasing SWMBO, and i have to keep the future crew happy :)

The Turbo 36 that Volvopaul mentioned from Torquay looked absolutely pristine, though it was priced at £100K. I have noticed a number of them on around £85K, late year models with 306hp engines that have been on the market a while now. Sad to say for the owners, but if a sale wasn't to be had over the coming year, then a £75K offer for one of these around Sept may not seem too cheeky.
 
A one owner boat with the later fibre radar arch recently sold for down here £75K.It had the 305 hp engines.The seller mentioned he was glad that somebody had offered him even that and was not going to argue simply due to lack of buyers.
Would suspect that a shrewd and patient buyer will a buy decent boat around that money especially as many have been on the market for ages just racking up the mooring fees.
 
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oldgit said:
A one owner boat with the later fibre radar arch recently sold for down here £75K.It had the 305 hp engines.The seller mentioned he was glad that somebody had offered him even that and was not going to argue simply due to lack of buyers.
Click to expand...
One owner for what was likely a more than 20yr old boat! He must have been upset to see it go. The selling price shows how little the prices of Turbos have moved. I sold mine for £75k 19yrs ago! Mind you, £75k isn't worth what it used to be worth
 
Hi
I have a bit of experience of both boats in question.
I have two friends who owned ts 37's and I had a turbo 36 and we cruised together for around 400 miles last year in total.
firstly the engines. ours had the tamd 60b's at 235 hp. the ts 37 supersport had ad41's 200hp and then a ts 37 aft cabin with the bmw(vm) 180's 180hp but at the shaft not the crank. In tha criusing we did the boats were reliable other than clogged filters from dirty fuel. the turbo managed a true average of 24 knots gps and the ts's were around 21 knots wide open.
fuel consumtion was tested with us all cruising at 16 knots and the turbo was best at 1.4 mpg with the volvo ts at 1.3 and the bmw powered one at 1.2 but that was in calm seas.
our turbo used hardly anything on the river where we kept her, tick over is 5 knots and it was very easy to use but a bit of a climb to get aboard but no worse than the others.
When the sea turned rough I would have to say that the turbo was a much better place to be as we roll far less. in fact I took the supersport out in a 1.5 mtr beam sea and the thing was terrible and seemed to be rolling far to much unless I was just spoilt with the turbo.
We have been out in bad seas a couple of times and I was never worried as she just went through everything with ease.
Engine acces is easy on the turbo for daily checks and can be done by raising the hinged stair case and crawling down between the engines, it takes us ten minutes to get the floor up to get to the rest of the engines and gearboxes. The starboard stufing box or in our case deep sea seal is a git to get to, you can inspect it by pulling the draws out in the aft cabin but it is located under the shower.
Fuel tanks. as been said you can get them out but ours was a 1982 boat and had no issues with any leeks but have been told the later alloy tanks are known to be a problem.
We had many great adventures on ours and I would have another one without hesitation.
Cheers Barry
 
That one is in the upcoming auction if you fancy a punt. Think the starting price is about 40k but imagine there will be a reserve a fair bit up from there.
 
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