oops! tidal power collision
- Thread starter daveyw
- Start date
prv
Well-Known Member
My main observation on the story is that this "Gareth Sharvin" character is apparently unable to form a coherent sentence.
Pete
Pete
saltylegs
Well-Known Member
Yea and you think you have a duff load of politicians, Spare a thought for us.
Friend seen it but I have no ID on the boat involved yet.
Friend seen it but I have no ID on the boat involved yet.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
So not only are they trying to pull the Moon out of the sky (laws of thermodyamics...), they are now trying to kill yachties too? Bloody eco hippies!
DaveS
Well-Known Member
The Strangford machine is the operational prototype for the turbine installations currently proposed for Kyle Rhea. The above water solid pillar simplifies maintenance by allowing the twin turbines to be hoisted clear of the water, but at the cost of creating a permanent hazard to navigation. "An accident waiting to happen" has been a common remark about this design - and now it has. Other designs of tidal turbine exist which cause no interference to surface navigation, e.g. those proposed for the Sound of Islay, and IMHO creating no navigational hazard should be a requirement for obtaining installation consent. Deliberately placing navigational hazards in areas of strong tidal currents strikes me as "unwise" to put it mildly. I can't recall hearing of the RYA taking a position on this subject - anyone know?
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
For years, I have been attempting to miss all manner of stuff fixed to the sea bed, this is simply another obstacle to miss. Tide power, bring it on. I cannot see sub sea servicing happen any time soon, so we may be stuck with a few more well marked piles to miss, along with various other unnecessary marine detritus, including navigation markers, moored boats, fish farms and outfalls, etc.
If only someone would mark all these hazards on some kind of marine map, of sorts?
If only someone would mark all these hazards on some kind of marine map, of sorts?
dunedin
Well-Known Member
According to Yachting Life (printed before this incident) both RYA Scotland and WHAM have objected to the proposed Kyle Rhea installations precisely because of this risk of collision - stating that they were not against tide power in principle, such as the Islay ones you referred to which are under the surface.
Perhaps this unfortunate incident in Ireland will ultimately be timely in discouraging more of these above surface installations
saltylegs
Well-Known Member
Apparently the blades were up in the air.
So it was not just the "light house" style structure that was hit the yacht went under and the mast got wiped off I believe
Remember this thing is mid stream for max current so if you loose power or are sailing and loose breeze under the (say under the hill) then you are water mill fodder.
Blades down.
So it was not just the "light house" style structure that was hit the yacht went under and the mast got wiped off I believe
Remember this thing is mid stream for max current so if you loose power or are sailing and loose breeze under the (say under the hill) then you are water mill fodder.
Blades down.
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lustyd
Well-Known Member
While true, the other stuff on the seabed has generally not been put in the middle of the channel on purpose by people claiming it's the future of power generation. It's not the future of power generation, and neither is wind. The first real research was recently done on the impact of these types of technologies and the answer was what I've been saying for years - you cannot ignore thermodynamics. The planet gets the energy from somewhere and by removing it we are causing an effect which will eventually become a crisis just like fossil fuels. Just because there isn't any smoke does not mean it's not bad for the environment!
DaveS
Well-Known Member
Leaving aside the more esoteric arguments about tidal power trying to pull the moon down and earth thermodynamics, my point is that if tidal power is thought to be a Good Thing, it seems to me that acceptable designs should not involve introducing a hazard to surface navigation, regardless of the convenience of such a design to its operators. Marking on charts will happen, but if faced with power failure in light wind (or in a mobo) in strong tide, marking will not help avoidance of collision.
TimBennet
Well-Known Member
You can level the same argument at any manmade structure in the sea. Groynes, breakwaters, piers, lead-in beacons, moored boats, pontoons, can all be obstructions. I bet it was easier sailing up the Hamble or Crouch 100 years ago.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Energy is not removed, it is converted, if you go outside you absorb some if it is warm or exude a bit if it is cold, if you do not go out it just warms the ground instead, since that is better should we all stay indoors? At the moment the tide in Kyle Rhea is obstructed by rocks and the banks until it is dispersed in the Sound Of Sleat, taking a fraction of it to warm the knees of a few of us miserable poverty stricken Scots will not reduce its flow. Leisure sailors complaining about having to take a bit more care of their navigation on the way home to switch on their lights need to think about their priorities. The yachts flying through at ten knots over the ground are converting some of it while the late risers motoring through at max revs. against it are burning dwindling carbon resources. The sun and indirectly the moon send all this energy down whether we use it effectively or not is up to us but the idea that making beneficial use of natural energy is going to stop the world turning belongs with the flat earth.
The Strangford turbine has been there for years now and anyone using the Narrows knows its there, they also know that the power of the tide demands care, it was thus long before the turbine was erected and I would suggest that there are far more frequent collisions with natural obstructions. That this is the first collision suggests that it is in a safe location. It is hardly going to be easy maintaining turbines between these high speed tides, doing it underwater strikes me as higher risk than the chance of some sleepy yachty running in to a tower.
DaveS
Well-Known Member
You may well be right, I have no personal knowledge of the Hamble or the Crouch.
My point, however, is that in designing a tidal turbine a choice can be made between keeping it all below navigable depth (desirable IMHO) and having an at surface structure to simplify maintenance. The latter has advantages to the operators but imposes risk on other parties. Am I alone in thinking that adopting this approach is selfish and unreasonable?
guernseyman
Well-Known Member
That will be news to Alderney (starting installation of below-water turbines in the Race this year) and France (starting installation on their side next year).
Angele
Well-Known Member
That is interesting to hear. I've nothing against tidal power generation if it causes zero impact to surface navigation (except periodic maintenance).
Presumably, though, there will be an exclusion zone while they instal it. Do you know when/where? I have just scanned current NtMs for the area and nothing came up, so I'm guessing the answer is "not just yet".
I'll be heading that way two or three times this year, so just want to know if/where I am likely to encounter these operations. My idle curiosity tends to draw me towards stationery targets at sea, especially on longer passages. But, if they are engaged in underwater works, I suspect they won't take to kindly to my passing close by.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and eedjits hit the Swellies beacon from time to time too, perhaps we should ban all navigation marks & blow up all rocks around our coasts too. Dredging all sandbanks to a minimum of 30' depth would help some sailors (& submarine captains) too.
FFS, the tidal flow is eminently clear around standing pillars & the things themselves are hard to miss - err as in not see - they are actually dead easy to stay well away from if you have a brain.
Seajet
...
Well the god-awful wind turbines seem pretty unfriendly things to collide with, are eyesores and don't do anything useful in terms of power generation except into the wallets of the subsidy receivers!
I reckon tidal power is the way to go and I promise I'll try to steer around any such turbines installed near me.
I reckon tidal power is the way to go and I promise I'll try to steer around any such turbines installed near me.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Well that's you safe then, there aren't any tides near you worth taking power from are there?
Seajet
...
Well that's you safe then, there aren't any tides near you worth taking power from are there?
Searush,
well Hurst Narrows and Portland Race aren't too far, also Chichester, Langstone and Potsmouth have a fair old ebb among others...it's not all champagne swilling Hooray Henries and roses here you know !
Searush
Well-Known Member
Searush,
well Hurst Narrows and Portland Race aren't too far, also Chichester, Langstone and Potsmouth have a fair old ebb among others...it's not all champagne swilling Hooray Henries and roses here you know !
And they run like this do they?
Cos the Swellies do, & so does Carmel Head/ Skerries where a tidal turbine installation is planned, but then we have 10mtr plus tides like the Bristol Channel.
What speed does Hurst nNarrows run at? Answer turn out to be 5/6 knts, about 2/3rds of Swellies! But I agree that the Swellies is a lot calmer as winds have relatively little impact on the water flow.