One up from an Optimist?

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richardabeattie

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My daughter wants to teach my granddaughter to sail. The granddaughter's expertise is is currently limited to managing the jib sheets on a Dabber. Our fleet includes a 10ft Foreland dinghy but that's too heavy for her mother to launch down our steep garden and across the stony beach so she is after an Optimist. But I'm not convinced that a 39 year old and a four year old would fit. Should we be looking for something slightly bigger but still very easy to drag and launch? If so what would be more suitable?
 
You will get a 39 year old in an oppie. But it will be hell. It will sail badly and be uncomfortable.

How old is grand daughter

What weight?

What else is in the fleet? Do you have something with an engine that can act as a coach / safety boat alongside the oppie?

Oppie -> Tera -> Laser -> 29er
^
-> Topper +

Is the commond single handed development route for kids these days

If you want something for Daughter and Mother - you would be better thinking of:

Cadet -> Mirror (or Heron if you don't want a massive circuit etc) -> any of the adult sized boats (GP14 etc)

or

Rotomoulded

Pico / Topaz (have choices on how to rig etc) [Sailing schools use the Laser Bug and Topper Taz too)] - can be 1 up or 2 up.
Might lead to RS Vision / Vareo / Feva...

A lot depends what sort of sailing you are planning...
 
It usually only takes a kid a few minutes to grasp the basics of steering and a few hours to become confident if left to get on with it. Best to coach and advise from another dinghy nearby. Kids won't learn quickly if an adult is in the boat with them.
I can still get in my grand daughter's Oppie, getting out is the problem.
RS Teras are becoming very popular and a bit bigger than Oppies.
Picos seem very heavy, presumably to make them stable but are not easy to manhandle.
 
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I had a similar idea last year but the general opinion around the local clubs was to go for a Laser Pico. Apparently kids tire of the opie quite quickly, once they get going. 4 is a little young but a local coach said "just chuck 'em in a Pico, give them the basics and let them go". He does his teaching from a 5m rib tho'.
 
My son is 6 - nearly 7.

Club said - last year he should be on the Oppy Sessions. He joined this year. It is very very weather dependant. Too windy and he wont be able to sheet in steer or keep it flat. I would have preferred to keep him crewing for me for another year...

The very heavy brigade seem to say everything is heavy... people used to car top all sorts of things!

As for not lasting long in Oppies - they sail very very very competitively up to age 15. Although my son tells me he needs a spinnaker for his!
 
I suspect that any single-hander that you granddaughter could handle in the near future will be too small to fit an adult and child safely / enjoyably. I see your best options being:

Stick with the dabber for a year or two, then get an Oppie and something to use as a support boat (inflatable with oars?). More modern equivalents are Tera and Taz, though these are slightly more powerful and significantly tippier. They have the advantage of having multiple rig options.

Get a *centre main* Topper and teach from the foredeck. The 4.2 rig is suitable for competent 7/8 year olds to singlehand, in the right conditions. With a four year old they could probably both fit in the cockpit which would allow for a more gentle transition from Dabber to eventual singlehanding.

Get a small doublehander. I recommend the RS Feva; this can be singlehanded by an adult, sailed by an adult and small child, or sailed by an older and younger child. This also has multiple rig options (including a small kite). I don't know how heavy a Foreland is for comparison, but the Feva is probably one of the smallest doublehanders available. National 12s are quite popular teaching boats where I sail, as they need very light crews anyway*.

I have taught from the front of an Oppie but the gunwales do get awfully close to the water, and it is really only a last resort to give confidence to a nervous student. The ideal would be a slightly scaled up equivalent, but sadly I have not come across such a boat.

It might be possible to find a training course to get over the first hurdle of transitioning into dinghies. At such a young age I imagine this would be inshore somewhere (eg Alton Water on the East Coast). Courses are a great alternative to one-on-one learning with a parent, which can be somewhat fraught (but not necessarily). Remember that a four year old's attention span will be very limited, and so sessions on the water should be too.

Where I teach the standard progression is Wayfarer (couple of days with instructor to get the hang of steering), then Oppie / Topper depending on size, with progression to Tera for good small people, then on to Feva then 420 for the older ones. The youngest we teach are seven year olds, the best of whom have no problems while others struggle with managing all the aspects of sailing a boat on their own.

* I would absolutely not recommend this option.
 
I'm not familiar with Dabbers, but why can the child not be taught to steer it?
Then progress to helm and main sheet?

I would suggest a Topper as a next boat, they are around used for the kind of money you won't mind it getting scratched a bit more.
You can get a smaller sail.

Mirrors are also good, but many of the wooden ones need a lot of work.

Optimists are really ideal for one thing and that's optimist racing.
 
My local dinghy sailing place goes Funboat (really for taster sessions only) - Bug - Pico - Feva, with a Wayfarer when they really want the instructor aboard. Otherwise they teach from a rib, or from a pontoon in the middle of the loch with the children sailing around. No Optimists at all, but they seem to have little merit save for the children of rich and racing-obsessed (for which read winning-obsessed) parents.

My crew dots around the places in a Heyland Swift, which is a nice wee thing if not the fastest ever.
 
Kids grow up and what's a good option changes, in my experience having watch all sorts of kids growing up dinghy sailing, including my own over the last 14 years, they can get the hang of single handing from around 8 and the Oppie is as good a place to start as any other. However before they get single handing its much better to sail for short sessions in a two up dinghy like the Mirror, Gul, Heron etc. I reckon you can sail with them from 3-4 years old and they can have an interest in sailing the boat, helping with sheets, steering, being on the correct side etc, etc. This is fun sailing for you and them.
Once they are big enough there are many more normal boats to sail than the Oppie, Tera, Pico, Topper, Laser etc. and you can move out the oppie before you get "too competitive" when ever you chose.
What ever boats is being used its sensible to consider the ability of the sailor and the detail of the that days sailing conditions as it's where most problems occur having seen many kids get overwhelmed by the conditions that had not been thought carefully about before they launched, this often leads to them getting their confidence severely knocked back!
 
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seumask said:
...they can get the hang of single handing from around 8 and the Oppie is as good a place to start as any other.
Click to expand...
Yip - 4 is too young. They won't enjoy actually sailing it at that age - although they might have fun mucking about, otherwise it becomes an endurance test.
 
Another vote for the Feva. Certainly worth a look for a small reasonably lightweight boat
Room for adult and child.
Feva with a couple of teenagers (my son plus other)
g57stlw.jpg


And with Topper and Laser 1 for comparison
6Wrs8I8.jpg
 
Hello, I'm the original poster's daughter. Thank you for your advice. Some useful suggestions I am going to investigate over the winter, ready for next summer.
We are not competitive sailors at all, so I'm just looking for a stable, tiny, confidence building dinghy for my little girl to start on.
The main thing I am looking for is that the boat must be woman-portable. The foreland dinghy is too heavy for me to drag up a steep driveway, then down over some municipal scrubland to get to the beach.
Thank you for your suggestions.
 
richardabeattie said:
Hello, I'm the original poster's daughter. Thank you for your advice. Some useful suggestions I am going to investigate over the winter, ready for next summer.
We are not competitive sailors at all, so I'm just looking for a stable, tiny, confidence building dinghy for my little girl to start on.
The main thing I am looking for is that the boat must be woman-portable. The foreland dinghy is too heavy for me to drag up a steep driveway, then down over some municipal scrubland to get to the beach.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Click to expand...

Definitely have a look at a Heyland Swift, then.
 
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