One for Dylan

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tarik

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Watched your East Coat film - really enjoyed it.


I have recently acquired a Centaur as a project, it needs lots of tlc. it will need a new engine and noticed that you have a couple of outboards. I missed what hp are they? obviously you are satisfied with the performance, any tips?


many thanks

Fair winds

David
 
I am sure that Dylan will be along soon to explain his experience. If you do a search on here you will find the subject was covered at great length in the latter part of 2013 when Dylan was considering fitting an outboard. Think his decision to buy a boat with a good inboard is a fair reflection of the conclusions of the debate.

An outboard is not a satisfactory means of propulsion for a Centaur unless you only want it for use in calm waters. The only way of fitting one sensibly is using a 10hp long shaft on a bracket on the stern. This is just enough power to achieve 5 knots in flat water, but upsets the balance of the boat, is difficult to operate from the cockpit, tends to come out of the water in any sort of waves, is so heavy that it cannot be easily removed from the boat and uses a lot of fuel.

If you have a Centaur with an old Volvo engine, you have two choices. First try to keep it running as long as possible or bite the bullet and fit a new replacement.
 
Seajet said:
A lot depends on sailing ability, of both boat and people. :)
Click to expand...

Not sure that follows.

Granted a good sailer on a well performing boat will need the engine less than a numpty sailing a haystack but for a given boat / sailor (dinghies / keel boats maybe excepted) an inboard is much better.
Weight is kept out of the ends
Engine is less of a target to thieves
Engine is protected from the elements
Propellor will usually be in front of rudder giving better steering.
Controls can be fitted for the convenience of the helm.
Propellor is much further underwater reducing cavitation and improving drive
Engine / prop protected from Sunsail ramming / rafting manouvers
Engine can power a decent sized alternator thereby keeping electrics alive.

Obviously none of the above applies if it relates to an A22 which of course can just use one of it's cold fusion reactors.
 
jac said:
Not sure that follows.

Granted a good sailer on a well performing boat will need the engine less than a numpty sailing a haystack but for a given boat / sailor (dinghies / keel boats maybe excepted) an inboard is much better.
Weight is kept out of the ends
Engine is less of a target to thieves
Engine is protected from the elements
Propellor will usually be in front of rudder giving better steering.
Controls can be fitted for the convenience of the helm.
Propellor is much further underwater reducing cavitation and improving drive
Engine / prop protected from Sunsail ramming / rafting manouvers
Engine can power a decent sized alternator thereby keeping electrics alive.

Obviously none of the above applies if it relates to an A22 which of course can just use one of it's cold fusion reactors.
Click to expand...

Or, if Scotty is having a bad day in the engine room, " I didnae expect you to be takin' us inta combat ", the outboard when fitted is in a well, answering most of the points mentioned above. :)
 
jac said:
Not sure that follows.

Granted a good sailer on a well performing boat will need the engine less than a numpty sailing a haystack but for a given boat / sailor (dinghies / keel boats maybe excepted) an inboard is much better.
Weight is kept out of the ends
Engine is less of a target to thieves
Engine is protected from the elements
Propellor will usually be in front of rudder giving better steering.
Controls can be fitted for the convenience of the helm.
Propellor is much further underwater reducing cavitation and improving drive
Engine / prop protected from Sunsail ramming / rafting manouvers
Engine can power a decent sized alternator thereby keeping electrics alive.
Click to expand...

Dylan always talked about cutting a well into a cheap Centaur with a dead engine.
That's more or less what I have in my 4 ton boat: a well in the cockpit right at the companion way.

The weight is kept out of the ends? Check (28 Kg, how much is yours?)
Engine less of a target to thieves? I can lock the well, Check
Engine protected from elements? Check (same as before)
Engine in front of rudder? Check
Remote controls fitted? Check
Prop constantly submerged? It's exactly where a saildrive would be, Check
Engine/prop protected from rammings etc? Check
Ability to drive an alternator? While mine does output ~5A I never bothered feeding that to the battery, so no.

However:

In case of hitting submerged objects, lobster pots etc I can easily raise the engine and clear the prop.
When under sail the engine is also raised, considerably reducing drag.
Replacing the engine could be done in under two minutes.
As long as it comes with a long shaft every engine in the same power range fits.
A brand new engine would cost me around £ 1200, good used ones can be had for £ 700 or less.
You can take the engine out and throw it in your car to have it serviced.

Actual disadvantages

Buying and storing petrol on a boat. Most marinas don't sell petrol and sometimes you're in for a long walk.
Due to it's volatile nature petrol isn't as safe as diesel, simple fact.

As for buying a second hand diesel: Try finding a suitable one!
Contrary to what the seller would like you to believe nobody pulls a perfectly working engine.
Most are tired old lumps, long obsolete and more often than not spares are either unavailable or far too expensive.
Fresh paint doesn't mean the engine has been professionaly rebuilt.
Reconditioned engines won't be that much cheaper than buying a new one, would you rather install a twenty year old Yanmar for £ 2900 or a new Beta for £ 4000?

Dylan talked about the 6Hp Tohatsu SailPro btw, the same engine that's been powering my boat for the last seven years.
 
Last edited:
K
Tranona said:
If you have a Centaur with an old Volvo engine, you have two choices. First try to keep it running as long as possible or bite the bullet and fit a new replacement.
Click to expand...

Or you can get rid of it for whatever you can get for it and start again with a different boat. A Centaur project is going to cost you a lot of money that you could spend on getting a more modern boat. Don't ask how I know!
 
Niander said:
OR get a good second hand Diesel.
Click to expand...
You have to ask yourself why anyone would sell a good engine. Some sellers explain it by saying they needed a more powerful engine but is that the real reason? Against this, diesel engines a very simple things and only need fuel, air and compression to work so, if you have the skill and inclination, you can do a full recon before you install it. But then you could recon your original ( if you can afford the parts).
 
ghostlymoron said:
You have to ask yourself why anyone would sell a good engine. Some sellers explain it by saying they needed a more powerful engine but is that the real reason? Against this, diesel engines a very simple things and only need fuel, air and compression to work so, if you have the skill and inclination, you can do a full recon before you install it. But then you could recon your original ( if you can afford the parts).
Click to expand...

If you can find the parts, if the engine is not rusting through, if the cooling tubes are not all blocked up, if ...........
 
Seajet, what size engine is in your Andeson 22, I know it's in a well the same as mine, both our boats are about the same length mine being a Pandora 700, I took my Yamaha 9.9 high thrust out, as amongst the forum members it was thought to heavy, it had altra long shaft. Electric start with remote controls, I will be putting in a long shaft 5hp Honda with battery charging, my reason being I will be able to lift it out for service etc, So the Yam which has had a full service by Power Products at Cuxdon only a month ago will shortly be up for sale , once I have tried out the honda, which was new March 2014 starts on one pull every time.So if anyone wanting my Yam it should be ready to sale all being well in a months time. The yam is very and requires a crane to give it a vertical lift so it clears the inboard well, done it with 3 men before.
 
Tam Lin said:
K

Or you can get rid of it for whatever you can get for it and start again with a different boat. A Centaur project is going to cost you a lot of money that you could spend on getting a more modern boat. Don't ask how I know!
Click to expand...

:)

But now you have a boat you love with a nice new engine. Happy days ahead !

It's only money.
 
2nd_apprentice said:
Dylan always talked about cutting a well into a cheap Centaur with a dead engine.
That's more or less what I have in my 4 ton boat: a well in the cockpit right at the companion way.

The weight is kept out of the ends? Check (28 Kg, how much is yours?)
Engine less of a target to thieves? I can lock the well, Check
Engine protected from elements? Check (same as before)

That's a really interesting post.
Engine in front of rudder? Check
Remote controls fitted? Check
Prop constantly submerged? It's exactly where a saildrive would be, Check
Engine/prop protected from rammings etc? Check
Ability to drive an alternator? While mine does output ~5A I never bothered feeding that to the battery, so no.

However:

In case of hitting submerged objects, lobster pots etc I can easily raise the engine and clear the prop.
When under sail the engine is also raised, considerably reducing drag.
Replacing the engine could be done in under two minutes.
As long as it comes with a long shaft every engine in the same power range fits.
A brand new engine would cost me around £ 1200, good used ones can be had for £ 700 or less.
You can take the engine out and throw it in your car to have it serviced.

Actual disadvantages

Buying and storing petrol on a boat. Most marinas don't sell petrol and sometimes you're in for a long walk.
Due to it's volatile nature petrol isn't as safe as diesel, simple fact.

As for buying a second hand diesel: Try finding a suitable one!
Contrary to what the seller would like you to believe nobody pulls a perfectly working engine.
Most are tired old lumps, long obsolete and more often than not spares are either unavailable or far too expensive.
Fresh paint doesn't mean the engine has been professionaly rebuilt.
Reconditioned engines won't be that much cheaper than buying a new one, would you rather install a twenty year old Yanmar for £ 2900 or a new Beta for £ 4000?

Dylan talked about the 6Hp Tohatsu SailPro btw, the same engine that's been powering my boat for the last seven years.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting post. 6hp for a 4 ton boat. Proves it can work.

It would be interesting to know if more marinas now stock petrol. This being a real problem on
the annual cruise. I can remember on one occasion having a full 5ltr can in a haversack on a bus and worrying if I might get turfed off by the driver.

Having said that , if in a marina , a boat owner on every occasion that I can remember, cheerfully ran me to and from the petrol station however far it was .
 
If you have a handy, older type boat, under 30ft, mainly used for round the cans and coastal cruising, inboards don't earn their corn. Same with light racing boats

If you have a machine with high windage and less ability to batter to windward and you like to make use of a motor for longer trips then the inboard has it.

As usual, despite all the blather, there is no right answer. The tipping factor is often the ability to produce good battery charging, which the inboard has and the outboard don't.
 
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