One anchor or two?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Can anyone explain the advantages of having two moderately sized bow anchors on a boat instead of one big anchor? Yes I understand that gives a degree of redundancy but surely if the wind or tide turns, if you have set two anchors, the chains will get tangled up? How do people use a two anchor arrangement? Is it a case of setting just one anchor most of the time and only using the second when it's blowy?

 

[vas]

so, mke,

you sorted engines, you decided on a trawler (by the looks of it) and you're now debating the number of anchors!
nice progress, when are you going to start a thread on that then?

kidding, would be interested to know myself, suppose we got to wait for MM or whoever else has a twin bow anchor arrangement.

cheers

V.

 

[Tranona]

Two anchors can be deployed in different ways, depending on the circumstances. In tandem, that is one behind the other to increase holding power. Seperately at angles if there is and expected wind shift, or one behind the boat and onbe in front but both led to the bow for anchoring in strong tidal streams where there is limited swinging room. Lots of debate in yotty circles about whether such tactics are effective.

Would not be a reason for having smaller anchors, but of using a second anchor (your newly acquired kedge?) to complement your main anchor.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

you decided on a trawler (by the looks of it)

Er, no, vas. Yes a trawler type boat is the eventual aim but we've been offered a very attractive deal to upgrade our existing Ferretti 53 to a Ferretti 68 that somebody is desperate to get out of. There's a long way to go before/if we do any deal and I stress the 'if' bit. In truth, its my SWMBO who's keen to upgrade to something larger; I'm not sure I'm so keen on the extra mooring and fuel charges. Anyway enough of that. Here is the anchor set up

 

[Salty John]

Basically there are three situations in which two anchors are useful. One is when you're in a very tight anchorage and there is a danger of swinging into something, you could set a stern anchor to hold you off. A more common use of two anchors is the Bahamian moor where one anchor is set up stream and one down stream; the boat is held by one anchor at a time but is prevented from swinging in a huge arc when the current reverses. The third use is in strong winds - you set them from the bow, about 45 degrees apart, and they share the load.

Here's an old article I wrote, probably controversial in these days of hi-tech anchors, and written for raggies mainly - scroll down to the bit on one or two anchors: http://www.saltyjohn.co.uk/resources/haphook.pdf

 

[vas]

Would not be a reason for having smaller anchors, but of using a second anchor (your newly acquired kedge?) to complement your main anchor.

but the kedge will most likely be deployed from the stern (mike you have a second winch or what?)
that surely wont work for wind shift, will it?

V.

 

[vas]

Er, no, vas. Yes a trawler type boat is the eventual aim but we've been offered a very attractive deal to upgrade our existing Ferretti 53 to a Ferretti 68 that somebody is desperate to get out of.

I see,
and what exactly makes you think that you'll be able to get out of a 68ft planning craft when you eventually move to a decent trawler in a couple of years time?
Not to mention that unless you want to go to a 80ft trawler, I'd avoid getting something even larger now as I doubt she'll feel the trawler will be spatious enough

ok, teasing aside, looks really nice!

cheers

V.

 

[Tranona]

but the kedge will most likely be deployed from the stern (mike you have a second winch or what?)
that surely wont work for wind shift, will it?

V.

No, you bring the kedge forward and deploy it from the bow. Had not appreciated Mike was talking about a boat with two anchors permanently on the bow. Not common, but many bluewater yachts have twin bow rollers and keep two different types of anchors ready mounted so that they can cope with different conditions. Bit OTT for the normal leisure sailor, but double rollers are useful, particularly if you use a swinging mooring as well as to set a second anchor.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I see,
and what exactly makes you think that you'll be able to get out of a 68ft planning craft when you eventually move to a decent trawler in a couple of years time?
Not to mention that unless you want to go to a 80ft trawler, I'd avoid getting something even larger now as I doubt she'll feel the trawler will be spatious enough

Spot on, vas and thats exactly the conversation I'm having with my SWMBO

 

[benjenbav]

Can anyone explain the advantages of having two moderately sized bow anchors on a boat instead of one big anchor? Yes I understand that gives a degree of redundancy but surely if the wind or tide turns, if you have set two anchors, the chains will get tangled up? How do people use a two anchor arrangement? Is it a case of setting just one anchor most of the time and only using the second when it's blowy?

Obviously you go for the Fretti 68. Second anchor: just another boy's toy/makes the front deck look symmetrical/gives you the option to dump one anchor when Blofeld and his villians come looking for you outside the casino in MC/possible marine use.

 

[jfm]

For some irrational reason i like the idea of having 2 anchors. Maybe one that is 30% bigger than stnadard and one that is perhaps 30% smaller. Or two, that are both 30% bigger.

But my reasoning is redundancy and back up, plus an attraction to boys toys hardware, plus the ability to use a small anchor in gloopy mud

My reasoning is not so i can use both together. All of this 2-anchor bermudian or whatever stuff is designed around holding the boat in bad conditions, but if the conditions are so bad that a single 50kg pick wont hold a 68 Ferretti you're not going to sleep anyway and you will have the keys ready in the ignition. Or you wont even be there. The biiiiig problem with 2 anchors is that if you need to get the hell out in worsening conditions you have 10x the risk of a tangle/snag/long delay etc.

So, check that the bigger of the 2 anchors will hold you in normal cruing anchoring then, consider the smaller one a back up only and a nice look to your foredeck, and you're good to go

Nice machine Mike. Major step up in volume from your 53 - I can imagine swmbo would love it. It can carry a proper tender too - there's one in antibes with a Novurania 400 DL and Yamaha 50. I can see the boat you're looking at and you would want to check very carefully @ 13 yo but you must know Ferrettis inside out by now so know what to look for and you can just mentally reserve £50k for replacing whatever pumps/hardware etc you might wish to swap. The other thing is, €100k would get you fin stabilisers then you don't need a trawler yacht. Good luck with the project! Ask JtB if he wants to buy your 53

 

[vas]

For some irrational reason i like the idea of having 2 anchors. Maybe one that is 30% bigger than stnadard and one that is perhaps 30% smaller. Or two, that are both 30% bigger.

two anchors different size would look VERY carp!
I wouldn't accept that, no matter!
Unless of course they are same size but one made out of steel and the other ali. But then they'll have a different finish.

Nah, two identical anchors and you have a notebook on the f/b helm noting and checking the rota of using them so that they weather similarly

V.

 

[jfm]

two anchors different size would look VERY carp!
I wouldn't accept that, no matter!

I don't get. The Ferretti 68 we're talking about here has 2 diff size anchors as you can see in the pic Mike has posted above. Also MYAG's Sunseeker Y80 has 2 different sized anchors. It's very normal, and sensible, imho

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Nice machine Mike. Major step up in volume from your 53 - I can imagine swmbo would love it. It can carry a proper tender too - there's one in antibes with a Novurania 400 DL and Yamaha 50. I can see the boat you're looking at and you would want to check very carefully @ 13 yo but you must know Ferrettis inside out by now so know what to look for and you can just mentally reserve £50k for replacing whatever pumps/hardware etc you might wish to swap. The other thing is, €100k would get you fin stabilisers then you don't need a trawler yacht. Good luck with the project! Ask JtB if he wants to buy your 53

Actually the one we're looking at is 12yrs old but I agree, I need to check everything carefully. The way the tenders are handled suits me because the flybridge crane handles both the main tender on the bathing platform and the PWC on top. I wouldn't have a PWC but I can put SWMBO's irritating inflatable kayak in it's place and launch it with the crane instead of having to fish it out of the lazarrete and blow it up every time she fancies a paddle.
To be honest, I didn't really have any intention of upgrading the boat this year because after 3 seasons with the 53, I've just about got her in a condition I'm happy with. The 68 is owned by a couple and unfortunately, the husband has passed away recently and the wife just wants out quickly so the deal on offer is very attractive. All the same, the boat is a few years older than I would normally buy. I have a sort of rule of buying at 5yrs old and selling before 10yrs old and this boat busts that big time. Yup, my SWMBO wants me to view her as a 'project' (I regret allowing her to talk to BartW at Dusseldorf) and, yes, I would mentally reserve some cash for the inevitable problems that would arise and, yes, there would probably be another stabiliser post on the forum in a year or 2.
My thoughts on the anchors are the same as yours ie change one for a big f*** off anchor (yes, vas, I know it will look carp!) and use just one anchor all the time with the second as a reserve in case the big one fails. Actually in Croatia, 2 anchors might be useful occasionally because when you're anchored with lines ashore, the wind is often coming from the beam so 2 anchors set at an angle would hold the bow better.
Anyone got any idea how much fuel a 68 footer with 2 x 1200hp engines would be using at 20kts? Is 0.4mpg realistic?

 

[photodog]

Wow! Salty comes on and gives the definitive answer, even talks about the Bahamian moor.... And you guys don't even notice!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Wow! Salty comes on and gives the definitive answer, even talks about the Bahamian moor.... And you guys don't even notice!

Not true. I'm looking at his article right now so thanks to Salty John and everyone else who has replied. I do read everything with interest even if I don't reply directly to every post

 

[Divemaster1]

.......Anyone got any idea how much fuel a 68 footer with 2 x 1200hp engines would be using at 20kts? Is 0.4mpg realistic?

ENGINES: 2 MAN x 1183hp
FUEL TYPE: Diesel
FUEL CAPACITY 4000 lt
FUEL CONSUMPTION: 400 lt/h
CRUISE SPEED: 27 Knots
MAX SPEED: 34 Knots
GENERATORS: 2 KOHLER 19kw & 11kw)
BEAM: 18.48 ft
DRAFT: 5.64 ft
WATER CAPACITY: 1000lt

.... believe the above consumption relates to 27 knot cruise, so that is 3.3 G/NM ... or about 0.31 NM/G

So assuming that drag is reduced a bit at 20 knots, but hull efficiency is similar, 0.4 may be a tad optimistic ... as may the other Feretti 68's out there that claim betwee 250 - 400L/hr

Nice boats though!!

 

[jfm]

Wow! Salty comes on and gives the definitive answer, even talks about the Bahamian moor.... And you guys don't even notice!

Ditto not true. I read his excellent article too, and in passing bought £60 of chandlery from his shop LOL! I thought it was an excellent article, particularly when he mentioned that when using 2 anchors in strong wind you must remember it might cost you not help you, if you need to get the hell out. That's a view I share strongly, and I thought it worth emphasising that on a post in case browsers dont click on his link

 

[jfm]

Actually the one we're looking at is 12yrs old but I agree, I need to check everything carefully. The way the tenders are handled suits me because the flybridge crane handles both the main tender on the bathing platform and the PWC on top. I wouldn't have a PWC but I can put SWMBO's irritating inflatable kayak in it's place and launch it with the crane instead of having to fish it out of the lazarrete and blow it up every time she fancies a paddle.
To be honest, I didn't really have any intention of upgrading the boat this year because after 3 seasons with the 53, I've just about got her in a condition I'm happy with. The 68 is owned by a couple and unfortunately, the husband has passed away recently and the wife just wants out quickly so the deal on offer is very attractive. All the same, the boat is a few years older than I would normally buy. I have a sort of rule of buying at 5yrs old and selling before 10yrs old and this boat busts that big time. Yup, my SWMBO wants me to view her as a 'project' (I regret allowing her to talk to BartW at Dusseldorf) and, yes, I would mentally reserve some cash for the inevitable problems that would arise and, yes, there would probably be another stabiliser post on the forum in a year or 2.
My thoughts on the anchors are the same as yours ie change one for a big f*** off anchor (yes, vas, I know it will look carp!) and use just one anchor all the time with the second as a reserve in case the big one fails. Actually in Croatia, 2 anchors might be useful occasionally because when you're anchored with lines ashore, the wind is often coming from the beam so 2 anchors set at an angle would hold the bow better.
Anyone got any idea how much fuel a 68 footer with 2 x 1200hp engines would be using at 20kts? Is 0.4mpg realistic?

If the thing is well priced it could be an excellent buy Deleted User. I'm with SWMBO on it! The 53-68 volume step up is huge, and you'll love that - who wouldn't. Interior fit is very nice, and has a nice internal fly staircase. Wave bashing ability in 68 is way better than 53. It's a Ferretti pre the later LBOs, so built to uber quality as you know. Loads more loafing around space, twin gensets, master midships cabin, good tender handling, all very nice features. You'll need a nav gear upgrade but that's easy and you can factor it in plus any re-leather/carpets bedding or whatever you fancy. And the stabs upgrade whether gyro or fin is a serious runner on this sized boat. This could be a great long termer. The 4000l of fuel wont match a true trawler, but is pretty good by normal standards imho in that it is 300nm range not a sunseekerish 220. You can probably work with that perfectly well I would think.

I think you will be about right on 0.4mpg. At 20kts I am 0.29mpg (from Caterpillar electronics, not bodgy guesswork) when light on fuel, and 0.25 when heavy. Average is better than that because there is some pootling. Worth paying the diver €100 to scrub the props quite often in this sized boat of course

Hope the plan comes together Mike

 

[vas]

I don't get. The Ferretti 68 we're talking about here has 2 diff size anchors as you can see in the pic Mike has posted above. Also MYAG's Sunseeker Y80 has 2 different sized anchors. It's very normal, and sensible, imho

Sorry JFM,

didn't notice the pic carefully enough, I was focusing on the lovely teak tbh
This size is completely outside my league and I saw quite a few "new" things in this pic
I also had in mind the bow pic of MM boat with the two massive identical anchors and hadn't realised that the norm is two different size ones. Would really like to see a bow pic now!

V.