Olympic Sailing Classes

I can't be bothered to read through thousands of words of class-document PDFs, but I'm wondering...

...how different can standards of Olympic sailing be, from the stringent measurement-conformity rules of most dinghy classes?

I mean, why should all the Lasers used at Weymouth, be supplied by the Olympic host? I'm certain there'll be qualified staff on hand to check that the boats are down to weight prior to races, and that the equipment all works and is rigged as per the rules...

...how much easier (and cheaper) could it be, to let competitors bring their own boats, and let class-officials check that no liberties have been taken? (I appreciate that Lasers aren't open to much personalisation!)

But looking at that wooden Contender, I'm thinking its appearance is half of its appeal - and if, in accordance with fairness-rulings, it was instead just Pro-gripped plastic, the pleasing individuality of the sport's heroes would be lost at Olympic level. :(

Gardaupwind.jpg
 
It goes back a bit. ;)

In 1948 the singlehander was supplied by the hosts. It was perhaps the very first mass produced dinghy, each as like as peas in a pod.

It was of course the Firefly and the decision to have the host nation supply all the singlehanders was quite a marketing coup for Fairey Marine, Charles Currey and Uffa Fox!
 
fishermantwo said:
As a long time Finn sailor I would say its probably the only class they should be sailing if you consider what the Olympics are really all about.
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Agreed. Unfortunately, is probably because it was an olympic class that the Finn never achieved the popularity it deserved for club racing. Infinitely better than that overpriced and over-rated ironing board thing -- the Later? Lesser? something like that, I think :p
 
Just a few viewpoints in no particular order...

- IOC President Jacques Rogge was a three time Olympian in the Finn class...

- The Ben Lexcen (later Australia 2) designed Contender won the 1968 trials for a new Olympic singlehander, but "for a variety of reasons" was never selected.

- ISAF held an "evaluation" (note not a proper trial) for a single-handers in 2000. About a dozen classes turned up, and what was to become the Musto Skiff pretty much dominated. Nothing ever appeared to come out of those trial.

- Surely if you really wanted sailing as a spectacle, you'd just chose the foiling moth (albeit you'd want a one design version of that, but the Mach 2 is pretty ubiquitous anyway). Best thing about them is that they all pack into a 12ft crate that is very container-able.

So the situation as it exists today is somewhat political for sure as already stated, and more than a little bit odd to those outside and inside the sport...
 
i agree with Minn that the Contender is a beautiful boat - also probably requires more skill to sail and less brute force than the Finn.

However how about the Canoe for skill:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgdo4p90jHo

I think both the Canoe and the Contender are far better classes for the Olympics than the tubby old under canvassed Finn or the Laser.
 
Hmm. So, unanimous conclusions of trials, are nevertheless ignored? It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that classes are chosen and retained according to whim and favouritism. Not that I’m the least bit sorry to see the Finn, Olympiad after Olympiad.

Likewise, I’m glad not to see many skiffs and foilers replacing actual boats – yes, Moths are quick, but if they replaced the Laser and Finn, it’d be like a high-wire act replacing the hundred meters.

It’s hard to imagine an occasion as widely-known as the Olympics, having such a small, private, idiosyncratic class-selection process. That said, whether one likes Lasers or not, their place in the event does at least seem to represent fairness, modernity & accessibility…

…factors which don’t seem to be behind the Star’s place, or the Finn’s, or the loss of a catamaran event.

P.S., Mr Chapman…

...the ‘under-canvassed’ Finn carries 10.6 square meters of sail, while the Contender carries 10.8. Not miles apart, are they?
 
I've thought for a while that a larger performance boat around 30ft with six plus crew might have an appeal as an Olympic class. To keep costs reasonable the races could be run on ten boats on a knockout basis.
 
michaelchapman said:
i agree with Minn that the Contender is a beautiful boat - also probably requires more skill to sail and less brute force than the Finn.

However how about the Canoe for skill:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgdo4p90jHo

I think both the Canoe and the Contender are far better classes for the Olympics than the tubby old under canvassed Finn or the Laser.
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Actually I was proposing the the Canoe as a skilled rather than a brute force singlehander. Dancrane was proposing the Contender.
 
Minn said:
Actually I was proposing the the Canoe as a skilled rather than a brute force singlehander. Dancrane was proposing the Contender.
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I'm not sure I'd want any design to oust the Finn - it's an icon. I like what I've heard about the self-bailers in the Finn's floor - they're not for getting rid of water, they're for letting the blood out. :)

The Contender has lots of appeal, I think, and it's tempting to believe what's widely written about lightweight helms coping as well as the heavy-brigade, and gaining substantially, downwind; but if you analyse the figures, very tall helms over 90KGs, win most often.

I still want one though...:rolleyes:
 
dancrane said:
Hmm. So, unanimous conclusions of trials, are nevertheless ignored? It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that classes are chosen and retained according to whim and favouritism.

…factors which don’t seem to be behind the Star’s place, or the Finn’s, or the loss of a catamaran event.
Click to expand...

Er don't understand this post. The original thread started when the classes for 2016 were announced - which were based upon the results of the recent trials and included adding a mixed catamaran class plus woman's skiff and at last dropping the geriatric star
 
The modern Finn with the wing mast is an absolute delight to sail. The old Finn required about 95 kilos to hold the boat up, now the range is 65 to 130 kilos. Even after sailing the boat for years I was always amazed by the boats motion upwind in a seaway. For a boat designed early last century its just so right.
I'm a fan of Contenders and anything Bob Miller designed, I used to own one of his quarter tonners. The Contender has a lot of wetted area and is a bit of a slug when not planing, a Finn beats it easily in mixed fleet racing. Fresher conditions its a different story. My son sails my old Finn in a mixed fleet club racing and his main opposition is a Contender. Contender just needs one capsize and he is history, Finn just keeps on winning through consistency. Also the Finn is much more robust, Lasers bending masts and other classes having breakages and the Finn just keeps on keeping on in extreme weather.
 
dunedin said:
Er don't understand this post. The original thread started when the classes for 2016 were announced - which were based upon the results of the recent trials and included adding a mixed catamaran class plus woman's skiff and at last dropping the geriatric star
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Much the the Brazilian's horror, as Robert Scheidt is a medal prospect and star sailor.
 
dancrane said:
I can't be bothered to read through thousands of words of class-document PDFs, but I'm wondering...

...how different can standards of Olympic sailing be, from the stringent measurement-conformity rules of most dinghy classes?

I mean, why should all the Lasers used at Weymouth, be supplied by the Olympic host? I'm certain there'll be qualified staff on hand to check that the boats are down to weight prior to races, and that the equipment all works and is rigged as per the rules...

...how much easier (and cheaper) could it be, to let competitors bring their own boats, and let class-officials check that no liberties have been taken? (I appreciate that Lasers aren't open to much personalisation!)

But looking at that wooden Contender, I'm thinking its appearance is half of its appeal - and if, in accordance with fairness-rulings, it was instead just Pro-gripped plastic, the pleasing individuality of the sport's heroes would be lost at Olympic level. :(
Click to expand...

Up until 1996, the Finns were supplied by the organisers. AIUI, there used to be all sorts of tales about how people rerigged the boats once they got issued them - taking one thread out of a double stitched seam in the sail, braiding it into line, and using that line to create extra purchase....

IMHO, the last thing the Olympics needs is non SMOD classes. The Brit budget for this cycle (09 - 12) is something like 25 million pounds. If we were allowed to design & build boats to class rules as well, less well funded countries would stand even less of a chance. Not good.
 
dunedin said:
Er don't understand this post. The original thread started when the classes for 2016 were announced - which were based upon the results of the recent trials and included adding a mixed catamaran class plus woman's skiff and at last dropping the geriatric star
Click to expand...

Really? I'd missed that. Thanks for the update. :)
 
dancrane said:
...how different can standards of Olympic sailing be, from the stringent measurement-conformity rules of most dinghy classes?

I mean, why should all the Lasers used at Weymouth, be supplied by the Olympic host? I'm certain there'll be qualified staff on hand to check that the boats are down to weight prior to races, and that the equipment all works and is rigged as per the rules...

...how much easier (and cheaper) could it be, to let competitors bring their own boats, and let class-officials check that no liberties have been taken? (I appreciate that Lasers aren't open to much personalisation!)
Click to expand...

In the Wayfarer class they carried out a comprehensive survey of various hulls after some Irish boats took the mick and repaired two wooden boats with existing measurement certificates such that only the Transom appeared original! They were forced to conform to race!

I am also aware of another old GRP Wayfarer that had distorted slightly due to its trolley. It has a good helm but we all think the distortion was a major contributory factor to its excellent results.

You can also reinforce GRP hulls in certain ways to give extra rigidity and a faster hull in certain conditions. That is why a wooden hull given identical shape and weight performs better as it is stiffer than GRP - now if you put kevlar in the GRP?? - need I go on? Even with minimum hull weight you can affect the sailing qualities by how you distribute that weight.

This is a complex subject but for a level playing field you have to have supplied boats.
 
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A Contender is a reaching machine. It would be hopeless on a W/L course. You can't square the boom to run. Personally, I'd like to see the the Laser ditched (god awful piece of 70s beach **** that it is, and one design my arse) for the guys, singlehanders should be the Finn and Musto.

Incidentally I think the 49er is the perfect Olympic boat, fast, spectacular, easily liveried with the "national flag" kite, fairly spectator friendly, aspirational yet achievable, very physical to sail competitively, utterly reliant on teamwork (crew does much more than the helm) fairly simple, and still pretty much without equal nearly 20 years on.

I think the FX will be fantastic and will really encourage the girls onto bigger things when the 29er gets boring. Mark my words, FX sailing will be the new beach volleyball in 2016.
 
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