Olimpics, Racing Rules

[gjeffery]

The BBC2 5 minute coverage afforded to sailing last night showed the UK women's Yingling taking a 360 turn after touching a mark. Apparantly she hit because another boat, which also took a 360 turn, failed to give water at the mark.

Now my question - did the UK boat have to take the penalty turn, or did it do so electively, to avoid the possibility of a subsequent protest?

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[bedouin]

Yes - as I understand it if you do a 360 after hitting the mark then that serves as sufficient penalty. I think the other boat involved may have had to do a 720 turn for not giving room.

Not doing the turns means that if you are protested then you are likely to be disqualified.

One of the interesting bits about Ben's DSQ in race 2 is that the Ben clearly knew nothing about it until after the finish - otherwise he would have done his 720 and kept going. Seems a bit strange that the other competitor is allowed to do it that way.


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[Phoenix of Hamble]

If you hit a mark, you do a 360, regardless of whether it was your fault or not, so if the Yngling crew hadn't done their turns, they would have been open to protest and would probably have been disqualified..... In a top flight event like the Olympics, the other boat, after doing their 720, would almost certainly have protested the GBR crew out.... harsh... but thems the rules!

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[alldownwind]

A lifetime ago when I was a teenager I was leading in the last race of the first Nationals I ever went to (in a Heron, remember them?), and exactly the same thing happened to me as happened to Ben Ainslie (at which point any similarity ends!) - I was involved in an incident with a stbd tack boat, except there was no incident, no witnesses, he protested and won it. With that first place I would have been 2nd overall, but as it was I already had a bad one and ended up about 12th, I think.
Young and naive I accepted it (in bad grace as I recall!) but ever since I have been convinced that if both sides accept there was no collision, and there are no witnesses, there is no case to answer.
So I don't understand why our Ben was thrown out either.

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[BustinAround]

firstly, bear in mind that there is no such thing as "water" at the windward mark in reality, because if you're in a position to need water, then the boat who is supposed to be giving it to you is the windward boat anyway, and you can't make them sail above close hauled to give you room.

From the 2 seconds that I saw, I'm not convinced about the other boat needing to do a penalty. It appeared that the brits tacked close under them, and therefore got immediate luffing rights, but not above closed hauled of course, so unless the windward boat was bearing away to the mark, we was in the wrong!



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[DanTribe]

Has the rule re protesting immediately been changed?
Some years ago my kids were in a youth class at World Championship level. One of our team was T-boned on starboard and capsized, when he surfaced and found his crew he protested, but the protest was disallowed as it was "not immediate"
The term immediate was always interpreted very strictly, even a minute later was deemed too late.
Dan

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[BustinAround]

Every protest commitee has their own way of interpreting the rules unfortunately, you have to inform the other party of the protest "at the first reasonable opportunity" If you sink, then on the shore afterwards would seem reasonable to me.

However I *think* this might have been introduced in the 2001 rules, I remember being taught something when I was a wee nipper in the cadet squad, but I can't quite remember what it was!



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[alldownwind]

You may be right, as for instance you don't have to fly a protest flag any more. You are supposed to tell the other competitor, and a race committee boat as well, but I think you can get away without if you can show that you didn't have the opportunity to tell someone.

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[BustinAround]

I was very disappointed when they introduced that ammendment Always so satisfying to slap up the red flag as you scream at your opponent

At one point I had one attached to the boom in a film cannister with the rope pokeing out a hole in the bottom, allowing you to yank it with rage the second an infringement was committed!

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[rwoofer]

First time I have ever heard of this rule. If you are close hauled and a leeward boat is still calling you up, then you must tack.

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[BustinAround]

Ok, I stand corrected It has been dropped from the 2001 rules, it still applies in the 2 boat length circle however, so my original point about the incident in athens stands

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[alldownwind]

When Sarah Ayton was interviewed on TV she said the other boat bore down on them. Hard (or impossible) to prove though without a witness. They undoubtedly did the right thing at the time by doing a 360.
Nice to see the way this trio are obviously hugely enjoying themselves - I know it helps if you're doing well anyway, but they certainly seem to be keeping it all in perspective.

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[BustinAround]

Yeha, def good work from the girls Surely "TV" is a good witness ?

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[benjenbav]

At the risk of being shot down in flames, given that this is based on the 2 second coverage on the BBC highlights, I thought Ben Ainslie did give some sort of waved acknowledgement that the other guy had borne away.

Did enjoy the footage of the Yngling competitor missing her footstrap and going over the side though.

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[flaming]

You cannot luff beyond head to wind. However, you can luff above close hauled. From what I saw of the Yngling incident I thought our girls were pretty lucky to get away with that move.

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[BustinAround]

I'm sure you're right, but I can't find where it says so in the rules anyone care to enlighten me?

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[benjenbav]

I think this probably comes from the premise that "When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat." Once the leeward boat goes beyond head to wind it will itself become the windward boat and in addition the rules relative to tacking will apply: “After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course. During that time rules 10, 11 and 12 do not apply. If two boats are subject to this rule at the same time, the one on the other's port side shall keep clear.”

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