Older Westerly OceanLord

Hi
I have written and posted quite a number if replies but none are showing on the thread. Be interesting to see if this does.
 
Tinto said:
Hi
I have written and posted quite a number if replies but none are showing on the thread. Be interesting to see if this does.
Click to expand...

They all seem to be showing - this sometimes happens with new posters, maybe a spam-prevention measure.

PS Welcome to the forums!
 
pvb said:
Neither, I just think that asking prices for older Westerly yachts tend to be, shall we say, rather optimistic. 50 grand will buy a well-equipped Ben/Jen/Bav around 10-15 years younger.
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So to clarify for the OP, what you're saying is that you have the impression that people pay extra for the Westerly name and that as a general rule you think AWBs offer better value for money than westerlies rather than this being a specific comment on whether the advertised boat was overpriced or a value comparison between the Oceanlord and one or more comparably priced AWBs?

As a general rule you could be right that people pay a bit more for westerly nostalgia, things that are "known" and a healthy owners club but I suggest that's a separate discussion from how a particular model compares with alternatives.

FWIW thinking of "early 2000s centre cockpit 12m AWB" I jumped to the Bavaria Ocean 40 CC (nice looking boat which forumite Yngmar used to have in the same marina as me) but those seem to be advertised for considerably more than £50k
 
laika said:
FWIW thinking of "early 2000s centre cockpit 12m AWB" I jumped to the Bavaria Ocean 40 CC (nice looking boat which forumite Yngmar used to have in the same marina as me) but those seem to be advertised for considerably more than £50k
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Some examples of around £50K boats...
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2000/beneteau-oceanis-411-3519332/
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1998/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-42-2-vat-paid-3506795/
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2004/bavaria-41-2748480/
 
john_morris_uk said:
All in the eastern end of the Med and the last one without VAT paid.
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The newest being the 15 year old VAT paid one and none being centre cockpit but at least it's the basis for a discussion of relative merits of an oceanlord and an oceanis 411. If only we knew what the OP wanted it for....(although I think we've answered the actual question which I think was "is the hull going to fall apart any time soon")
 
laika said:
The newest being the 15 year old VAT paid one and none being centre cockpit but at least it's the basis for a discussion of relative merits of an oceanlord and an oceanis 411. If only we knew what the OP wanted it for....(although I think we've answered the actual question which I think was "is the hull going to fall apart any time soon")
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That's a fair point, although in my experience, boats in the Med don't command the same prices as boats on the S Coast of the UK.

Centre cockpit vs aft cockpit is an entirely different discussion.

However I am not disinterested as most people know that we have owned and sailed a Sealord for the last 14 years. I see no reason to swap her for anything else, despite the maintenance that is required. The headlining are a PITA as I've paid to have them done once and they now need doing again... The deck tread has finally worn out and its a labour of love replacing it.. etc etc. However for accommodation and seaworthiness and solidity of build, I wouldn't swap her for some modern AWB's if you paid me.

If we won the lottery I might be tempted by a new boat built to my spec... (But that does require men to buy a lottery ticket so it isn't going to happen.)
 
laika said:
......
FWIW thinking of "early 2000s centre cockpit 12m AWB" I jumped to the Bavaria Ocean 40 CC (nice looking boat which forumite Yngmar used to have in the same marina as me) but those seem to be advertised for considerably more than £50k
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Very nice boats, as you say things that folk want tend to be expensive.
 
Strange how prices are I agree with PVB in some ways when I was looking for a boat 2 years ago it did seem that prices for the 70s and very early 80s boats held their price and in some cases were out pricing more modern boats from known big Marques
These were espically westerly's and Moody's and Nicholson's
No idea why as I do not have enough knowledge on this , but one assumption might be that the owners have spent a lot of time and money upgrading these boats and may have over inflated the price accordingly (my thoughs only might be rubbish :p)
But I did get a good price on Moody 42 which turned into a cash dump upgrading her :D
 
laika said:
Are you basing that on a knowledge of the market for oceanlords or on a personal dislike for the brand based on the experience of various earlier yachts in the westerly range you referred to?

For the OP...I note that a 5 min video yachting monthly did on the oceanlord is on youtube:

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Looks like crap bacon.
 
laika said:
The newest being the 15 year old VAT paid one and none being centre cockpit but at least it's the basis for a discussion of relative merits of an oceanlord and an oceanis 411. If only we knew what the OP wanted it for....(although I think we've answered the actual question which I think was "is the hull going to fall apart any time soon")
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Hi all, thank you for the input.

A few posts of mine are missing.

I am looking for a boat as a live aboard for 6 or so of the year, sailing mostly around the Hebrides. Centre cockpit boat obviously gives a nice sized aft cabin. Could be the smaller Ocean Ranger.

I used to work for ETAP and have a soft spot for those but a 38 has a smaller aft cabin, but warmer in the cooler weather��
 
FlyingGoose said:
Strange how prices are I agree with PVB in some ways when I was looking for a boat 2 years ago it did seem that prices for the 70s and very early 80s boats held their price and in some cases were out pricing more modern boats from known big Marques
These were espically westerly's and Moody's and Nicholson's
No idea why as I do not have enough knowledge on this , but one assumption might be that the owners have spent a lot of time and money upgrading these boats and may have over inflated the price accordingly (my thoughs only might be rubbish :p)
But I did get a good price on Moody 42 which turned into a cash dump upgrading her :D
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We brought a Moody 42 nearly three years ago and it needed a refit ,
luckily I able to do all the work myself from re rigging to the engine over haul , all old boat are money pits , people think they can buy a older cheap boat and it not going to cost then any thing , big mistake, if I had to pay a yard to do the work I did I could had easily spend another 20k .
If your not handy and can't do the work your better off spending a bit more and buy a newer
Boat that don't need work .
 
Tinto said:
I am looking for a boat as a live aboard for 6 or so of the year, sailing mostly around the Hebrides. Centre cockpit boat obviously gives a nice sized aft cabin.
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If you're going to live aboard (especially with a partner) you'll find that more modern boats have much better toilet/shower facilities, usually better galley/fridge arrangements, and often better sail-handling gear. Don't be too hung up on an aft cabin - in many more modern boats the forecabin is the cabin of choice for owners. More modern boats also tend to have been built in semi-automated factories, so the quality of fit and finish will be better, and they're unlikely to leak as readily. They also tend to be lighter and brighter inside.

Despite the claims of Westerly/Moody fans, these older boats generally do not have "a far heavier fibre glass layup than boats of today". It's one of those great boating myths which is spread by hearsay. You can check the facts fairly easily by looking at the figures for displacement (total weight) and ballast (weight of the keel). If you subtract the ballast weight from the displacement, you'll get the weight of the hull. For similar-sized boats, rig weights are similar, so the hull weight gives you an indication of how comparatively "heavily built" the boats are.

For example, the Westerly Oceanlord is 12.34m long, with 9470kg disp and 3500kg ballast, giving a hull weight of 5970kg. The Bavaria Cruiser 40 (built 2008 onwards) is a bit shorter at 12.25m long, has 8680kg disp and 2780kg ballast, so hull weight of 5900kg - virtually identical.

John Morris mentioned his Westerly Sealord, and obviously loves it (despite the ongoing work required). The Sealord is 11.73m long, with 8392kg disp and 3629kg ballast, so 4763kg hull weight. The Bavaria Cruiser 38 (built 2000 onwards) is a bit shorter at 11.68m, with 7200kg disp and 2096kg ballast, so hull weight of 5104kg - a bit heavier than the Sealord.

You can see the same results with other boats which are famed for their "heavy build". I had a Hallberg-Rassy for almost 20 years, and that was almost always described as "heavily built". It wasn't; if you looked at the numbers, the hull weight was similar to many other boats of similar size. When I sold my 1990 Hallberg-Rassy 5 years ago, I bought a brand new Bavaria. If I'm honest, it's much better built than my old HR.

So my advice would be to set a maximum purchase price, allowing a suitable contingency for first year repairs/updating/maintenance (which will vary according to the age and condition of whatever you buy). Then look at yachtworld.co.uk and see what you can buy around your budget. Remember that asking prices may be overly optimistic - and that many sellers are quite eager to sell, so offers under the asking price may succeed. Then go and look at a few, both older and more modern, and see whether you think you could live in them for 6 months. Have fun looking!
 
Halo said:
They are heavy boats and need a fair bit of wind to get them moving.
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I'm late coming to this thread and this might have been addressed...so apologies if it already has.....we have a westerly chieftain and I've got to say it actually goes along rather nicely with very little wind and then is a racehorse with force 6ish. Definitely a heavier boat though...hates reversing nicely :o
 
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