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Old toilet
- Thread starter corkonian1
- Start date
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
[ QUOTE ]
We have an RM69 on the new boat - if possible to be replaced with a Lavac this winter. It exhibits a similar "quality", in that when you are drying the bowl, at the very end as things start to gurgle you get a sort of a spit back...
On pumping to check function on Gainsborough Lady for the first time, I discovered this "undocumented feature". As the seacocks have been open for two years whilst the boat has been afloat, you can imagine what spat back... I think I've stopped smelling now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Larry, if you continue leaving seacocks open while no one is aboard, you're gonna show up at the dock someday and find your boat sitting on the bottom!
As for the "spit back"...a new joker valve should cure that. Joker valves should be replaced at least every two years.
The joker valve is part #518 in the drawing at the link I posted above (it's in the same location on all manual toilets, btw). Replacement is easy: just remove the discharge fitting from the pump, swap out the valves, put the fitting back.
Be careful when you retighten the screws...the flange on the joker valve is also the gasket for that connection. You want it tight enough to seal, but not TOO tight...too tight will "pucker" the rubber, causing it to leak.
[ QUOTE ]
We have an RM69 on the new boat - if possible to be replaced with a Lavac this winter. It exhibits a similar "quality", in that when you are drying the bowl, at the very end as things start to gurgle you get a sort of a spit back...
On pumping to check function on Gainsborough Lady for the first time, I discovered this "undocumented feature". As the seacocks have been open for two years whilst the boat has been afloat, you can imagine what spat back... I think I've stopped smelling now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Larry, if you continue leaving seacocks open while no one is aboard, you're gonna show up at the dock someday and find your boat sitting on the bottom!
As for the "spit back"...a new joker valve should cure that. Joker valves should be replaced at least every two years.
The joker valve is part #518 in the drawing at the link I posted above (it's in the same location on all manual toilets, btw). Replacement is easy: just remove the discharge fitting from the pump, swap out the valves, put the fitting back.
Be careful when you retighten the screws...the flange on the joker valve is also the gasket for that connection. You want it tight enough to seal, but not TOO tight...too tight will "pucker" the rubber, causing it to leak.
ex-Gladys
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
...the seacocks will be closed as of tomorrow. We only take official ownership then, I couldn't believe it!!! We will live with things as they are this season, and will replace in its entirety this winter.
...the seacocks will be closed as of tomorrow. We only take official ownership then, I couldn't believe it!!! We will live with things as they are this season, and will replace in its entirety this winter.
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
[ QUOTE ]
...the seacocks will be closed as of tomorrow.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hopefully they haven't seized, preventing you from doing so.
Sounds like you may have bought yourself something of a "project boat." Restoring one is fun, though it can be as frustrating as it is satisfying--and full of both nasty and great surprises. On mine, I was still finding both "you've GOT to be kidding..what fool did THIS!" and "Oh, wow--look what I found!" for a full year! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
...the seacocks will be closed as of tomorrow.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hopefully they haven't seized, preventing you from doing so.
Sounds like you may have bought yourself something of a "project boat." Restoring one is fun, though it can be as frustrating as it is satisfying--and full of both nasty and great surprises. On mine, I was still finding both "you've GOT to be kidding..what fool did THIS!" and "Oh, wow--look what I found!" for a full year! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ex-Gladys
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
Fortunately the seacocks are fine(both Blakes and tested)...I just left them as the previous owner did... APart from a head that is "interesting, the only real job to do is headlining. Divorce settlements are wonderful things..... an unboaty wife getting own back on boaty husband by insisting on boat as part of her settlement.
Fortunately the seacocks are fine(both Blakes and tested)...I just left them as the previous owner did... APart from a head that is "interesting, the only real job to do is headlining. Divorce settlements are wonderful things..... an unboaty wife getting own back on boaty husband by insisting on boat as part of her settlement.
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
You remind me of a fun story that's become an urban legend, but actually did happen in the '70s in Chicago... A man who was car shopping came across an ad in the paper for Porsche less than a year old...asking price $50. He was sure the price had to be a typo and wasn't deterred by that...so he made an appt to see the car...and loved it. He asked the lady who was selling it, "I'm sure that $50 was a typo...what's the real price?" And she replied, "$50 IS the real price. Last month my husband ran off with his secretary. A few days ago I received a telegram that said only 'please sell my car and send me the money.' And that's what I'm doing."
You remind me of a fun story that's become an urban legend, but actually did happen in the '70s in Chicago... A man who was car shopping came across an ad in the paper for Porsche less than a year old...asking price $50. He was sure the price had to be a typo and wasn't deterred by that...so he made an appt to see the car...and loved it. He asked the lady who was selling it, "I'm sure that $50 was a typo...what's the real price?" And she replied, "$50 IS the real price. Last month my husband ran off with his secretary. A few days ago I received a telegram that said only 'please sell my car and send me the money.' And that's what I'm doing."
corkonian1
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
"A lever or knob near the top of the toilet pump operates a valve that disables the intake portion (top half) of the pump."
This is the part I do not understand.
On my toilet the lever rotates a rubber plug which opens ( wet mode) or chokes off ( drymode) the inlet pipe from the sea to the top pump. It is separate from the
one way flap inlet valve on the top pump. How would just choking off the inlet pipe
disable the top pump? As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top pump ( inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only) pump becomes stiff to operate. This choke valve must not be functioning correctly
If my toilet is an RM it is an earlier model. The pump disable valve is different design
"A lever or knob near the top of the toilet pump operates a valve that disables the intake portion (top half) of the pump."
This is the part I do not understand.
On my toilet the lever rotates a rubber plug which opens ( wet mode) or chokes off ( drymode) the inlet pipe from the sea to the top pump. It is separate from the
one way flap inlet valve on the top pump. How would just choking off the inlet pipe
disable the top pump? As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top pump ( inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only) pump becomes stiff to operate. This choke valve must not be functioning correctly
If my toilet is an RM it is an earlier model. The pump disable valve is different design
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
"On my toilet the lever rotates a rubber plug which opens (wet mode) or chokes off ( drymode) the inlet pipe from the sea to the top pump."
Yep...
"It is separate from the one way flap inlet valve on the top pump."
They have nothing to do with each other...the flap valve only comes into play when the toilet is in the wet mode.
"How would just choking off the inlet pipe disable the top pump?"
There is no top pump...only the top HALF of the pump. Look at the drawing.
"Disable" is prob'ly a bad choice of words...."blocks"--or your description "chokes off" is more accurate. That's ALL that happens. Since the flush water comes in at the top of the pump and only goes out the bottom of the pump, nothing happens above the bottom half of the pump when the toilet is in the dry mode.
"As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top pump (inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only)
Air CAN get in...It gets in through the bowl. In fact, if air could get into the pump while in the wet mode, the pump wouldn't be able to prime.
"...pump becomes stiff to operate.
There are a couple of reasons (posted above) for that...but--
"This choke valve must not be functioning correctly."
If it blocks and unblocks the flow of flush water, it IS working correctly. 'Cuz ALL that "valve" (plug) does is block off or allow the flow of the flush water...nothing else.
"If my toilet is an RM it is an earlier model. The pump disable valve is different design"
Nope...all piston/cylinder toilet pumps have always worked the same way for as long as piston/cylindeer toilets have existed....a lever or knob swings little "gate" or plug around to block or unblock the flow incoming flush water from the inlet at the top of the pump...otherwise, the same thing happens in the pump whether the toilet is in the wet mode or the dry mode.
Methinks you're WAY over-thinking this. Lubricate the toilet...if that doesn't ease the stiffness, put a service kit in it AND keep it lubricated.
And btw...I've been in the marine potty biz for nearly 20 years...I DO know how they work...honest! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
"On my toilet the lever rotates a rubber plug which opens (wet mode) or chokes off ( drymode) the inlet pipe from the sea to the top pump."
Yep...
"It is separate from the one way flap inlet valve on the top pump."
They have nothing to do with each other...the flap valve only comes into play when the toilet is in the wet mode.
"How would just choking off the inlet pipe disable the top pump?"
There is no top pump...only the top HALF of the pump. Look at the drawing.
"Disable" is prob'ly a bad choice of words...."blocks"--or your description "chokes off" is more accurate. That's ALL that happens. Since the flush water comes in at the top of the pump and only goes out the bottom of the pump, nothing happens above the bottom half of the pump when the toilet is in the dry mode.
"As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top pump (inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only)
Air CAN get in...It gets in through the bowl. In fact, if air could get into the pump while in the wet mode, the pump wouldn't be able to prime.
"...pump becomes stiff to operate.
There are a couple of reasons (posted above) for that...but--
"This choke valve must not be functioning correctly."
If it blocks and unblocks the flow of flush water, it IS working correctly. 'Cuz ALL that "valve" (plug) does is block off or allow the flow of the flush water...nothing else.
"If my toilet is an RM it is an earlier model. The pump disable valve is different design"
Nope...all piston/cylinder toilet pumps have always worked the same way for as long as piston/cylindeer toilets have existed....a lever or knob swings little "gate" or plug around to block or unblock the flow incoming flush water from the inlet at the top of the pump...otherwise, the same thing happens in the pump whether the toilet is in the wet mode or the dry mode.
Methinks you're WAY over-thinking this. Lubricate the toilet...if that doesn't ease the stiffness, put a service kit in it AND keep it lubricated.
And btw...I've been in the marine potty biz for nearly 20 years...I DO know how they work...honest! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ex-Gladys
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
My wife gave the RM69 "the treatment" today and in less than a couple of hours, flushing with biological laundry liquid dissolved in warm water( 2 capfuls in 3 litres), the niff has gone... Flushed it through with loads of fresh (i.e. non saline) and left it with white vinegar in the pipes. Be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.
The gay divorcee insited on having her manky old fridge back today.... As we were going to take it to the tip anyway, we were delighted to be saved the trouble.
My wife gave the RM69 "the treatment" today and in less than a couple of hours, flushing with biological laundry liquid dissolved in warm water( 2 capfuls in 3 litres), the niff has gone... Flushed it through with loads of fresh (i.e. non saline) and left it with white vinegar in the pipes. Be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow.
The gay divorcee insited on having her manky old fridge back today.... As we were going to take it to the tip anyway, we were delighted to be saved the trouble.
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
Should be a LOT better unless the hoses have permeated.
Do one more thing...put a little mineral oil (baby oil is the same thing, just scented) down the loo and pump it through. Then, this fall, do it right...open up the pump and slather it with synthetic based teflon grease...so you won't have to worry about lubing it again till next fall.
Should be a LOT better unless the hoses have permeated.
Do one more thing...put a little mineral oil (baby oil is the same thing, just scented) down the loo and pump it through. Then, this fall, do it right...open up the pump and slather it with synthetic based teflon grease...so you won't have to worry about lubing it again till next fall.
corkonian1
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
"As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top part of pump (inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only)
Air CAN get in...It gets in through the bowl. In fact, if air could get into the pump while in the wet mode, the pump wouldn't be able to prime.
Can you explain this a little further.? I can see how air/contents could get into bottom part of pump in dry mode but how would it get into the top part of the pump
from the bowl as the non return flap outlet valve in the top part of the pump wont allow air back in from bowl, input pipe is choked off, piston must be airtight. I seems to me as if in dry mode top part of pump can expel air but not input air. Similar as if you put your finger over the outlet of a bicycle pump and pumped. It would be stiff.
Thanks for your patience and explanations.
"As no air can get in to fill the vacuum in the top part of pump (inlet pipe choked off, outlet pipe flap valve allows air out of pump only only)
Air CAN get in...It gets in through the bowl. In fact, if air could get into the pump while in the wet mode, the pump wouldn't be able to prime.
Can you explain this a little further.? I can see how air/contents could get into bottom part of pump in dry mode but how would it get into the top part of the pump
from the bowl as the non return flap outlet valve in the top part of the pump wont allow air back in from bowl, input pipe is choked off, piston must be airtight. I seems to me as if in dry mode top part of pump can expel air but not input air. Similar as if you put your finger over the outlet of a bicycle pump and pumped. It would be stiff.
Thanks for your patience and explanations.
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
When you pull up on the pump handle, air and some of the bowl contents are pulled into the bottom part of the pump...when you push the pump handle down, a pair of built-in valves reverses and the material is pushed out of the bottom half of the pump and on downstream through the discharge hose.
It works exactly the same way whether the toilet is in the wet mode or the dry mode...the only difference being that the flow of incoming flush water is blocked by the cam or plug moved by the lever when the toilet is in the dry mode. That cam or plug has nothing whatever do with the pumping action of the toilet or where any air comes from, only water. If air could get into the pump via the flush water intake, the toilet would not prime...nor would it be able to create the vacuum needed to push the bowl contents out.
If you'll go back and read--print it out, and the pump drawing too--my previous complete description of how piston/cylinder toilet pumps work, it should become clearer to you. Meanwhile, try just lubricating it to ease the stiffness!
When you pull up on the pump handle, air and some of the bowl contents are pulled into the bottom part of the pump...when you push the pump handle down, a pair of built-in valves reverses and the material is pushed out of the bottom half of the pump and on downstream through the discharge hose.
It works exactly the same way whether the toilet is in the wet mode or the dry mode...the only difference being that the flow of incoming flush water is blocked by the cam or plug moved by the lever when the toilet is in the dry mode. That cam or plug has nothing whatever do with the pumping action of the toilet or where any air comes from, only water. If air could get into the pump via the flush water intake, the toilet would not prime...nor would it be able to create the vacuum needed to push the bowl contents out.
If you'll go back and read--print it out, and the pump drawing too--my previous complete description of how piston/cylinder toilet pumps work, it should become clearer to you. Meanwhile, try just lubricating it to ease the stiffness!
corkonian1
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
If you'll go back and read--print it out, and the pump drawing too--my previous complete description of how piston/cylinder toilet pumps work, it should become clearer to you.
Ive done that but your diagrams and explanations a do not tell me anymore than I knew already having dismantled and cleaned the pump. It does not address the point I have been trying to get across as to how the top part of the pump (that part which
pumps the flush water into the bowl) behaves in dry mode ( a piston moving down, increasing the volume of space above it and no means of ingress of air or water to equalise the pressure to the outside atmosphere).
Lets leave it at shall we?
If you'll go back and read--print it out, and the pump drawing too--my previous complete description of how piston/cylinder toilet pumps work, it should become clearer to you.
Ive done that but your diagrams and explanations a do not tell me anymore than I knew already having dismantled and cleaned the pump. It does not address the point I have been trying to get across as to how the top part of the pump (that part which
pumps the flush water into the bowl) behaves in dry mode ( a piston moving down, increasing the volume of space above it and no means of ingress of air or water to equalise the pressure to the outside atmosphere).
Lets leave it at shall we?
HeadMistress
Well-Known Member
Re: RM69
"Lets leave it at shall we?"
I think we'll have to...because you're determined to make it MUCH more complicated than it really is.
I suggest you visit a dealer or distributor who also services toilets and ask them to show you what happens inside the pump.
"Lets leave it at shall we?"
I think we'll have to...because you're determined to make it MUCH more complicated than it really is.
I suggest you visit a dealer or distributor who also services toilets and ask them to show you what happens inside the pump.