Old toilet

[corkonian1]

My ancient manual toilet on the boat has a valve with two positions, open and closed.If the bowl fills with water when valve is in the open position (pump in ) to clear the bowl I close the valve and pump out the bowl.However I seem to be forcing something as the pump handle requires much more force in this case.I have dismantled the pump to clear salt corrosion. The pump valves are rubber flaps weighted with lead and the in/out valve is a rubber plug which pivots. Modern toilets have pump in and pump out positions. Am i using the toilet correctly?
I cannot see a makers identification.

 

[Talbot]

a lot of the toilets have a two position switch such as

This switch in one position pumps out only, in the other position it pumps in water whilst pumping out bowl contents.

If this toilet is similar to yours, it probably needs a full service with replacement of all the rubbery and flappy bits.

 

[HeadMistress]

You're using the toilet correctly. If it hasn't seen a service kit in at least 5 years, it needs one. Pumps also need lubrication to keep them working smoothly. First try just a tablespoon of mineral oil down the bowl...that should ease the stiffness considerably. If it does, when you take it a part to put a service kit in it, slather the inside of the pump liberally with teflon grease. That'll last at least a full season, whereas a little oil down the toilet is never ending process every week or two.

Btw, you'll have to identify it--make and model--before you can buy a service kit for it...they aren't "one size fits all." Take a photo--one that gives a good view of the PUMP, not the just the bowl (all bowls look alike)--and post it...I or someone else here should be able to identify it for you.

 

[corkonian1]

Thanks for that. It looks much older than the picture, probably 1960's vintage.
Glad to know I am using it correctly.
I will try the mineral oil and post a picture anon.

 

[mainshiptom]

My toilet maker recommendes a few table spoons of vingar evry three months?

Tom

 

[Csail]

I also have an old toilet which keeps 'blowing back' on flush out....i can make out the words Rask--- then --69. If anyone knows if i can get a service kit for it i would be very grateful.

 

[Grehan]

I have a Lavac, so that's different from yours, but I get similar phenomenon when have forgotten to open the outlet seacock . . . Is the outlet or the outlet hose bunged up in some way?
If you can get access to the outlet hose and work on it (that bit of it) above the waterline then maybe you can (a) introduce some sludge-busting stuff and/or (b) connect a mains pressure hose pipe to help free any gunge.

As Bluebottle says, Just a Thought . . .

 

[Csail]

Yeah....does your pump handle all of a sudden go loose while pumping then you get the back splash?

 

[colvic987]

Have just received a new service kit for mine, noticed that it started leaking during the summer cruise, was not sure of make, found out that it was a raritan model, looked it up on the www and it was a discontinued model, found that lee sanitation are a distributor, info on website, ordered yesterday afternoon, and surprised when wife phoned me at work and asked if i was awaiting a parcel, delivery in less than 24 hrs....i was impressed!!!!...

Just need to understand where all the bits go, amazing how many washers and little rubber bits in a marine toilet.... try google search..
there are a lot of different types around so if you can match up a picture or description from the distributors websites, you should be able to get the correct kit.

Good Luck....

 

[HeadMistress]

[ QUOTE ]
My toilet maker recommendes a few table spoons of vingar evry three months?


[/ QUOTE ]

Vinegar isn't a lubricant, but it does dissolve sea water minerals in hoses, y-valves etc. However, once every 3 months isn't likely to do much, nor is just a few tablespoons. A cupful down the toilet once a week or any time the boat is to sit will do the job--and btw, it should be WHITE vinegar, not cider. Be sure to flush it completely through the hoses...don't leave any sitting in the bowl or the pump. Vinegar passing through won't do any harm, but rubber parts left to soak in it will swell up and distort.

Seasail...I THINK your toilet is one made by Raske en Vander Meyde If so, you should be able to get parts from them: http://www.rm69.com/nav/home.htm

Corkonian, unless your toilet turns out to be a Blake, putting ANY money into a 40 yr old manual toilet is likely to be a waste of money. By now the inside of the pump cylinder has to be so worn that it's out of round and so scored by salt and grit that new seals, valves and o-rings aren't likely to improve its performance much if any. Everything has a lifespan, even Blakes (which are made to last 50-100 years and have a price tag commensurate that durability)...the average lifespan of older "compact" toilets is 10-15 years, MAYBE 20 if used only lightly...but after 40 years, it'll be a miracle if you can even get any parts for it any more, much less that they'll do any good. Sooner or later you'll just have to bite the bullet and replace the d'd thing...I'd do it BEFORE putting any money into it. Unfortunately, though, few toilets made today are likely to continue working at all for even 10 years...some don't last 5 trouble-free years.

 

[corkonian1]

I have seen on a brochure for the same type of boat that the toilet was named a 'WATERLOO" type.
Incidentally, with the inlet water valve closed, is air forced back through the out valve or past the piston to fill the vacuum on the side of the piston that usually pumps the water in when the inlet water valve is open, if you see what I mean.

 

[HeadMistress]

I THINK I do...when the toilet is in the "wet" mode (brings in flush water), it brings in flush water AND pushes bowl contents out the discharge...when it's in the "dry" mode(no flush water), it pushes bowl contents out. A toilet that's working anywhere near original specs can move bowl contents along the discharge house up to 6'--even up and over a vented loop--while in the dry mode.

 

[corkonian1]

Sorry I have not explained my self well.

There are two pumps worked by a single piston in a tube, one above piston , one below.
Piston up - bowl contents drawn into bottom pump , flush water ejected from top pump into bowl if in wet mode
Piston down - bowl contents ejected from bottom pump to sea, flush water drawn into top pump from sea if in wet mode.
But if in dry mode top pump attempts to suck water from a closed valve when the piston goes down. Problem - pump feels stiff and it seems as if there is no path for air to get into the top pump except back through the outlet valve.Is top pump designed to behave like this or is there another corroded valve somewhere?
Sorry to bang on about it but I like to know how things function

 

[smudger_6635]

csail - I would confirm the Headmistress's identification. My boat used to have a Raske v/d Meyde toilet, model RM69. Made in Edam, Holland.

 

[HeadMistress]

That's not quite how it works, Cork...

Most manual marine toilets have piston/cylinder pumps that all work pretty much the same way: a piston rod inside a cylinder pulls water in on one stroke and pushes it out on the other stroke.

Manual toilets are “double-action”, that is both sides of the piston (or diaphragm) are used simultaneously for different purposes. Beginning with the operating handle or knob in the down position, when you pull it up, a vacuum is created in the space below the piston which pulls some of the contents from the toilet bowl and into the bottom half of the pump cylinder. Then, when you push it down, a pair of built-in valves reverses and the material is pushed out of the bottom half of the pump and downstream – to a holding tank, treatment system, overboard or other ultimate destination. That covers the space beneath the piston inside the pump.

On the top half of the same cylinder, above the piston, as you pull the knob or lever handle up, any water in the top of the cylinder is expelled through a valve and connecting hose, to the entry point at the rear of the toilet bowl – to rinse the bowl. Pushing the handle down, creates a vacuum in the top half of the cylinder and pulls in outside water, filling the empty space above the piston.

So, in the top half of the cylinder, you’re bringing in outside water for flushing and delivering it to the bowl for rinsing. At the same time, on the bottom side of the piston, the contents of the bowl are being pulled out and sent on their way. A lever or knob near the top of the toilet pump operates a valve that disables the intake portion (top half) of the pump.

In the “wet” mode, the pump pulls water in from outside to rinse the bowl, while simultaneously removing the contents of the bowl and pumping them downstream. In the “dry” mode, it only pushes bowl contents out. While in the “dry” mode, air pressure created by pumping a manual toilet that is in good condition can move waste and water through the system up to about 6 feet without bringing in any flush water. The “dry” mode is primarily used for two purposes: 1) to clear the bowl to keep water from sloshing out when on a hard heel or when encountering rough seas. 2) To aid in clearing a temporary clog, such as too much toilet paper, etc. It won’t bring in any outside water so there’s no risk of overflowing the bowl.


Here's an exploded drawing of the Raske manual toilet...it works exactly the same way as all other manual toilet pumps: http://www.rm69.com/nav/manual/spare2.htm

There are a couple of possible reasons why the toilet is stiff in the dry mode... 1. water does provide minimal lubrication...in the dry mode, it's not even getting that much. 2. The wet/dry "valve" in the pump that's operated by the lever isn't really a valve...it's just a little cam that swings to block or unblock the flow of flush water. It can hang when the lever is moved, creating backpressure. If a tablespoon of mineral oil doesn't improve the situation, that's the most likely source of your problem.

 

[BrendanS]

Peggie,

Please hit return key twice once in a while. That's a big chunk of text to take in, and not easy to read if not in paragraphs. I know you won't take offence, hence while I'm asking you, as many do it including me, if I get carried away just typing when on a mission.
B

 

[HeadMistress]

Sorry...most of that was just copy/pasted--from my book, actually--without thinking or looking at it again. If I can still edit it, I'll toss in some returns.

And btw...you're either up VERY early, or up VERY late! By calculations, you posted that at somewhere between 2 and 3 am your time. It's only going on 9pm here now.

There...is that better?

 

[BrendanS]

Both, You should know that by now!
Thank you, much easier to read now /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[charles_reed]

RM69

Raske & van der Meyde
Njerheit 17
Bofercault 1135
Edam, CR Netherlands tel 0031 299371100

Their UK agents are
E C Smith
H/J, Kingsway Ind Est.
Luton LU1 1LP Beds. tel 01582 729721

If you have one of the old ones keep it. You need to ask for a maintenance kit for the manual RM69, whilst about it it's probably worth getting a pump shaft - the ends of those always suffer from textbook anaerobic corrosion.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Re: RM69

We have an RM69 on the new boat - if possible to be replaced with a Lavac this winter. It exhibits a similar "quality", in that when you are drying the bowl, at the very end as things start to gurgle you get a sort of a spit back...

On pumping to check function on Gainsborough Lady for the first time, I discovered this "undocumented feature". As the seacocks have been open for two years whilst the boat has been afloat, you can imagine what spat back... I think I've stopped smelling now.