Old GRP boats don't die

[JunkMale]

Old GRP boats don\'t die

Just interested, after checking out various brokers and Boats n outboards dot com, there seemss to be lots of oldish, but not exactly vintage yachts for sale for various prices, some reasonable some a bit far fetched.

There are names that speak for themselves in the under 10k dept.; Etap, Swift, lesure, drascombe, cornish, Newbridge, Corribee. All good brands from the 70s and early 80s.

Nationwide have had a nice Etap 20ft for over 4 years in their yard.


The prices asked are often in excess of their original sale price. Cars from this era are now re encarnated as casings for washing machines, ballast or whatever, but are rarely seen on the roads. No-one would ever buy a caravan from this era except as a cabin for a building site..

Will old grp boats ever die? Or do they just wait for someone to buy them who will never be able to sell them again?

Is low budget sailing a labour of love?

Are the s/h prices realistic? for 20year old boats?


Burial space for UK bodies is apparently at a premium, maybe now is an opportunity for killing 2 birds with one stone; anyone for a viking funeral?


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[supermalc]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

I have a Norman 18ft Cruiser. Not a sailer, but still a small GRP boat. Supposed to be 1976, and cost around an average years wage when new(I've absolutely no idea of the price of a new small boat today) in the early 70s. They were about the price of a new Mini.

A Mini today in original condition with a new engine will fetch far more than the £3500 I am asking for my boat (I have to sell because I have now got a Mahogany clinker fishing boat with a single reconditioned diesel).

The Norman came from Nationwide at a very reasonable price.....except the engine had no oil pressure, so almost £2k for a new one.

Given the boat is in original and unpainted condition, and has now cost me approaching £5000 I think this is very reasonable, in fact cheap. And osmosis is rarely a problem on Normans, so should still have a long life ahead of it.

Are you judging boats on other 'throw away' items like cars. And even these 'plastic' ones i.e. Lotus Elans etc. also have a long life.

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[SydneyTim]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

It raises an interesting point as its really the hull rather than the boat we're talking about. The hull won't wear out, everything else does and then you just bolt a new piece onto the hull to replace it. This should mean that for a well designed hull there will always be a market as long as the economics of replacing the "consumables" and buying the hull outweigh the cost of a "newer" boat.

The old boats that aren't that good are the problem, as the prices are usually unreasonable, but as there is no means of getting rid of them other than selling them they just sit around gathering dust for years. There's a 55ft racer from the early 80's complete with radical hull and winged keel, that's been sitting around here for 4 years now, while the owner still thinks its worth something and everyone in the market knows if you set foot offshore in it you'll be seeing your lunch. Trouble is it costs him very little to moor it, he doesn't maintain it so that's cheap, and imagine the cost of trying to dispose of the thing!!

As new boat prices fall with mass production techniques we'll probably see a lot of older boats sitting around unsold. I know in the USA they have this problem and there are now a couple of boat crushers, where the boats come in, they strip off all the gear worth keeping and then munch the hull, recycling the fibres. Then sell the useful bits through large warehouse style second hand chandleries.

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[Avocet]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

Keep an eye on whether they sell or not. I think the market will determine how much they're worth. Mine's a 1972 GRP boat and is probably still worth what we paid for it 7 years ago. Unfortunately, I don't think it has appreciated either!

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

Agree with the comments about bolting bits on.

I am currently refitting mine, two years and counting. We have just started the headlinings, oh the joy!

But all running gear is being or has been replaced, new intstruments, new galley eqp.

Thing is, I save like scrooge and do the odd bit of overtime so she does not owe me anything, I have zero finance on the boat now. Yes this I expect makes me lucky, but I have been sailing for two years without headlining.

What will she be worth as a 27 year old when I am done, dunno, don't care, she is not for sale. But I do know she is / was very sort after as a catamaran of her size and there is no new equiv. The molds got destroyed, so if you want a heavenly twins you will have to buy second hand.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

Last post sounded a little arsey I thought.

What I was trying to say was, with a s/h boat you can often find a fully fitted and kitted vessel for much less than new. This should prevent a large marine mortgage wieghing down your sailing.

But, in my case I am almost rebuilding into the hull and replacing most hardware as I go along, otherwise I could not afford to sail a 'larger' boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[yoda]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

Interesting point but my car is only 3 years younger than the boat and that was built in 66. Both are still in regular use. Do agree about the hull being the only bit that doesn't wear out! Yes old boats are a labour of love however advertised prices are not an indication of what they actually fetch. Offer what you think it's worth and you won't be dissappointed.

Yoda

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[FullCircle]

Re: Old GRP boats don\'t die

Like Yoda and Jools, I also favour the 'cheap' end of this sport, having previously sold my soul to Lucifer before to keep my newish shiny bit of plastic. As an East Coaster. I am also replacing the headlining (good fun removing it eh, Jools??) and the cushions, new roller furling and genoa (actually cheaper than buying No1 and No3). Oh and the cooker was acquired from this very website. Its fun and cheap. My hull and washing line bits are good, engine appears tatty but serviceable, and NASA instruments.
There appears to be no incentive to permanently dispose of older boats, and mine still has a modern shape to it. Selling it? Have thought about it for a year or two down the line. Have just seen a Westerly Centaur at 8 and a bit grand. Hmmm. Thats the sort of thing next. It will owe me very little. Sorry I couldn't bring myself to splash 20 something grand on a First 211, so that will keep the influx of new boats down by one.

This subject must cause much scratching of heads down the Boatbuilder Arms after work, as they have now been producing GRP boats with an apparent nuclear half life of 57,000 years for just under half a century, and they show no signs of disappearing from crowded boatyards. At least the wooden boats had the good grace to die after some neglect. I suspect there will be an end of life directive, time expiry on hulls or rigs (like cars for 2007) and a boat MOT at some time in the euro-future.

In the meanwhile, if you enjoy the little extra effort, then fill your boots.

Jim



<hr width=100% size=1>Second Chance - First Love. I still need a 7m Luff Spinnaker & Pole for 22 footer!! Help!

 

[Guest]

Why do you want to ?

What is wrong with old boats ? Mine is 27 yrs old .... previous was 25 yrs etc. etc.

My present Estonian 1/4 ton cup boat is 1975 vintage and still wins races ... (ok this one is timber not GRP ...)

But many people get on the water via these older cheaper boats ... many in fact not 'trading-up' for a newer supposed better boat !

Long Live the Old Boats ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[oldharry]

Re: Ancient plastic

I own a 1959 design GRP 'Classic 19'' - and after surprisingly little in the way of bolt on bits (new keel bolts, new rubbing strake, new cockpit trim + a completely refurbished rig) she sailed through her survey better than many boats a 10th of her age. Mind you, its obvious the builders thought GRP grew on trees, as everything is built to timber scantlings - and then reinforced with GRP ribs etc, so she really is a 'nice solid little boat!

The yard reckons if she ever developed osmosis, we could just grind half an inch off all over, and start again! Might go a bit faster too! (Over 2 tons on a 17 foot water line.... doesnt make for speedy passages although she's no slouch).

But how many millions of GRP boats have been built since? OK not all of them will continue to be useable - but what happens next? Do we just go on patching up and replacing the bolt on bits for the next 2000 years....? Then what? It a bit like all the plastic packaging we have generated - all those fancy little plastic packs that we buy screws in (and why are there ALWAYS one too few per pack, so that you buy 2 and end up with loads of odd spares): the packaging will still be around in 1500 years time - long after the contents have reverted to their natural state.

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