Old diesel engines - What's your view? Would you rely on it?

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chrisswift18

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Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Hi all,

I am looking to move up to a larger boat however I am faced by the dilemma over engines. Many of the boats I am looking at have engines nearly 30 years old!

My concern is stretching my budget to buy the boat only to be faced with an unreliable old engine or worse a potentially huge bill for engine overhall or replacement.

So what do you experts think? Is it sensible to buy a boat with an old diesel engine?

How can you really check on an engine's condition?

What sort of money are we talking about for a major overhaul of say a 10 to 25HP sized engine?

Would this overhaul likely result in many years of good service from the engine if looked after?

Many thanks in advance.

Chris
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

65 views and no replies. So I'll stick my neck out.

If when you arrive to inspect the boat in the water and the engine is cold
and if it starts easily
and if it runs smoothly
and if it does not smoke much
and if it's not leaking oil
anfd if it engages forward and reverse without graunching noises
and if the owner sounds as though he knows his engine and has maintained it
then it's probably reasonably OK. So what you are then looking at are the ancilliaries - the filters, the pipe work, the impeller

Diesels are not complicated and if the spares are available they can generally be renovated at reasonable cost.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I formed the view a long time ago that you might as well buy a boat with a bust engine at a cheaper price and put your own new one in. In the case of older boats with non-current engines you have the additional problem of a complete re-installation. Best to buy a boat with an engine that you can easily replace.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I agree with Richard....

The age is less relevant (to a certain extent) than the care with which it has been treated....

While an older engine may well have high hours, they can be perfectly OK.... my last boat had a 30 year old Albin in it, and it ran hour after hour without a complaint....

You can easily find boats with 5 year old engines that are knackered after never being serviced, never having the oil changed, the original oil filter, air filter and impellor and the belt so worn its more like string....

ask the owner some questions that will reveal his knowledge levels, like

how easy is it to bleed?... do you have to bleed the injectors too?

How accessible is the oil filter

What kind of fuel filter does it have?

Ever need to decompress it when its cold?
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

The only trouble i have ever had is with old diesels, when you dont have confidence in them it makes for a stressful time
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Welcome Chris, tiss a good Forum and tiss a good question.
R Beattie has replied well and so too, savageseadog.
Tiss the bits that surround it that wear/cause probs as R beat says.
"The Engine" bit ie the bits with Crank ,Pistons, in it , ie the Inner Lump will do lots of miles , never mind the age.
It,s the pipes, clips, gaskets, copper pipes brass fittings stainless fittings, impellors, heat exchangers, oil coolers and all that other stuff that is connected.
Ie the Marinising bits that probably cause more grief than the actual Diesel Engine itself.
So if it does what R Beat say--- fair enough go for it.
10 to 25 Overhaul shouldn,t be too expensive but some on here will dissagree.
I am just relating to bigger engines.
Like My 105 HP Volvo.
That,s a different ball game.
Age is not such a factor in boats as to Cars.
Which maybe You are more used to.
Boats do less Hours generally and sometimes suffer from that than "High Mileage "usage.
I think the "outside plumbing" is more to worry about than the actual wear in the eng itself.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I agree with all that's been said. I'd also check that the engine runs at its working temperature and there's no water in the engine oil. If you get closer to buying a boat with an old engine you could ask for specific advice on that engine.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

and if it starts easily Or service the injectors
and if it runs smoothly. As Above
and if it does not smoke much. As above.
and if it's not leaking oil. Stick a new gasket on.
anfd if it engages forward and reverse without graunching noises. Adjust acordingly.

Else course it just may be knackered.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I have just replaced the engine (Ford) in the Barge that I belive was 1986 with one that is dated 1980.
Having said that the replacement engine uses no oil (the old one used a liter a day) and runs like a dream.
When viewing the engine prior to purchase I went for a trip in the boat it was fitted in, did all the usual checks prior to it being started and again when it was hot.

All in all I belive that age in an engine is not a concern provided that it has been looked after, my last boat had an engine (lister) dated 1934, admitedly I put new pistons and liners in it but its still running fine and that was 15 years ago.

Having said that I am not so sure I would feel the same about Volvos or similar.
Julian
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Try knocking down the price to cover engine replacement. Then, if it needs doing you have the funds, if not put 'em in the bank for when you do!

I've just replaced my 1973 MD2B as, after a few expensive rebuilds, I still had an old, unpredictable engine. I took a job for 12 months to pay for it's replacement - Yanmar 3GM very smooth, quiet & powerful - well pleased with it.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I agree that it is the ancillary bits that give the trouble and they may, by now, be unobtainable or very expensive. I eventually scrapped my MD2B because the dynastart, the regulator and the oil pump were becoming too much hassle although the engine ran OK, if noisily and prone to leak diesel. The re engine was very expensive, but worthwhile for peace of mind. Suggest you try to have price reduced by at least half the cost of an installed new engine.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

It's well worth checking if parts are available. My old Volvo MD1b was a runner but the exhaust manifold needed to be replaced....one of about ten or twelve parts made from unobtainium. Even had it been available, the refit cost in parts alone would have been £2000 (give or take a few) and a brand new Yanmar cost me less than £3000. The exhaust elbow for all those old MD engines in another expensive and vanishing part.

I can understand people wanting to keep old engines going, I've a 1952 motorbike myself, but I keep MY boat for sailing, not maintaining. If I want something to tinker with, I've got my Triumph Terrier.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Much cheaper if the engine is knacked, to fit a more modern replacement, with the added feel good/reliable factor. IMHO
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Flippen eck me fisrt bike! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Oh No!
Don,t start Me off.
Thread Drift sorry!
Just as well else I,ll be up till 4 am! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I rebuilt the 50+ year old 4-53 Detroits in my boat in 2001. It wasn't cheap - but they are good old engines, but noisy. Cost about the same each as it just cost me to rebuild the engine in my 1990 BMW M5.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

Ah well you see.
The engines in mine are 35 year old GMC V8 10.4 litre diesels that were just about obsolete when they were installed. To say they were a bit quirky is an understatement really, in that American Marine actually made one run backwards (rather than reversing the drive through the gearbox).
Parts? no longer available unless you go to America, but I was lucky enough to source two complete ones and now have them as spares.
Ancillary parts such as starter motors etc can normally be repaired.
When we first got the boat the engines were a nightmare and needed constant work and fettling, to be honest they probably needed more maintenance time after a trip than a SR71 Blackbird.
Over time though they have become (crosses fingers) very reliable and I now have confidence in them and no longer sit with my face glued to the engine instruments, it did take a while though.
In summary really, it worked for us but I was able to carry out the work myself, if I had to pay someone else to do it, it would have been a disaster.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

One thing you can be pretty sure of in buying a 30 year old boat - at least one nasty expensive surprise. Might be the engine (I've yet to own a boat with no engine probs) or it might be something else.

So dont nail you flag to the mast for the largest old clunker you can afford. Keep some money back.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

I bought a boat with a 30-year-old engine, which had been well-maintained and overhauled/rebuilt five years earlier. Started fine, not much smoke, not much oil, all ok. Then suddenly it died. And I had to get a new engine. Birdseye's advice is sound: you never can tell what will snap but you can be sure you'll be spending somewhere along the line!
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

[ QUOTE ]
What sort of money are we talking about for a major overhaul of say a 10 to 25HP sized engine?

Would this overhaul likely result in many years of good service from the engine if looked after?

[/ QUOTE ]

Had dinghy experience only. Bought a 26' steel yacht, desperation sale (salesman said). No rust, quality construction, looked just right. $7500 compared with the GRP ones fully equiped for $17000. Engine worked just fine.
Test & inspect, transfer ownership, pay. Engine worked first go. Go for sail, off engine & enjoy sailing. Didn't start when wanting to return, so sailed into berth.
Learnt how to bleed the thing, but got worse.
Overhaul was $2200 for a Yanmar 8 horsepower; new price is around $7300 plus installation. Prices of 5 years ago.

The bottom line is that I reckon that there was value in the whole boat/engine package. Maybe the low purchase price made me forgiving when the overhaul was needed, as the cost-to-date of the whole thing was still quite good.

Now when I have to/choose to motor for 25 hours straight, I am grateful for a reliable diesel and not an outboard, which I considered.
 
Re: Old diesel engines - What\'s your view? Would you rely on it?

The boat my father bought in 1960 had a 1920s Ford petrol, converted to marine use, and with a DIY pre-heater so it could run on TVO. It started on petrol, and when warm could with great skill be switched slowly to TVO. One false move and it stalled, necessitating plugs out for cleaning. Hand start only.
It had splash lubrication, so the rear-most plug constantly fouled up with oil.
We changed it for a new Perkins 4/99. If the boat still exists, that engine might be 40 years old now.
 
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