Oil filters

[oldgit]

Where are you seeing the Baldwin filter for £7? The site I use, in-line filters, is usually well priced and they list the B447 at £15.82. Volspec list the original at £20.76 so the saving is less than a fiver per engine. I’m not saying £5 is not worth having, but sometimes even I will bite the billet for an original part, and this would probably be one of those occasions.

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£6.95​

FIN-FL70234 Filter-Lube(Equivalent: W1140/2, LF3464, B447, 51596) SPECIFICATIONS Part No: Inline FL70234 (Also available as Brand Specific: FBW-B447, FFG-LF3464, FMH-W1140-2) Our Stock Level: 4 Stock at Manufacturer(UK) 3-7 day lead: 29 More Stock: Any further stock usually 2-10 weeks Details: Full-Flow Lube Spin-on. Anti-Drainback Valve 20 PSID By-Pass Valve. Also G381-A I-Gasket. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP.. Updated: 21/11/2021 INLINE TECHNICAL To search for manufacturer's Technical Data on any Inline product click ..... Click Here for Full Specifications

Found a couple of more relevant oil filter videos on Youtube, more UK based , about internal quality of filters.


For run of the mill non specialist filters Bosch and Mann seem to come out well.
Unable to discover a single example of anybody cutting open a Volvo Penta marine filter, would now love to know what lurks within the white canister with its blue writing and as to if folks faith in paying over the odds is justified.
What happens if it is just a bog standard canister with nothing very special inside and some very clever marketing ?
Popped round to my local motor factor in the end and bought a couple of Mann W1140/2 for around £13.00 inc VAT. each.
Went down to the boat to do the oil change and found my oil/diesel transfer pump has now finally died after 10 years of misuse, including pumping out a mixture of water and diesel.
Now waiting for replacement pump to arrive.

 

[Moodysailor]

Interesting to see this thread rumbling on. Definitely some divided opinions here.

Until then, I am happy using reputable ISO compliant aftermarket brands at a fraction of the cost.

What ISO standard are you looking at? At how would you know if the engine manufacturer is also working to this standard, or has set their own, proprietary standard? There are a dozen or more ISO standards relating to lubricating oil filters - most are concerned with mechanical factors (burst pressure, differential pressure, vibration tests, dimensional conformity, etc).

I'm not saying the filters you choose aren't suitable, just again making the message that it is important to actually compare apples to apples if you claim you are doing so. Otherwise, don't make the claim and still be happy with your choice - and the extra few quid in your pocket.

Someone rightly made the point that there aren't a lot of engines that have gone 'bang' from using these, and that is a fair point. Having spent over half my working life inside engines I have seen the accelerated wear that ignoring or using sub-standard lubrication does - but it does go to show how robust these engines are that they tolerate this without serious complaint. I can only think of a handful of examples where I have seen terminal failures from these choices.

 

[Gwylan]

Given that generally on sail boats we change the filter annually then that's only a few hours compared to road users.
Something clean and fresh for that time is as good as it gets.
Isn't it?

 

[markspark7]

The fuel filter for our Yanmar works out at almost 60 quid with VAT at Yanmar dealer price.

I use - just had another lot delivered from Inline Filters - Baldwin Filters.

3 lube filters for main engine and genset - they are the same - and two engine fuel filters, 67 quid delivered.

I worked for Lucas service years ago. Crossland filters was a Lucas company. I visited the factory more than once and have a good idea of what makes an excellent filter.

AFAIK, no engine manufacturer make their filters, they are made by filter companies and supplied as OE fit in factory assembly and as spare parts for use in service.

If a filter from a reputable source matches the OE spec there is no reason not to use it.

40-50 years ago there were dodgy filters on the market. Honda motorcycles suffered parts pirating and took legal - successful - against, IIRC - Britax who were supplying inferior stuff.

Bad filter quality seems to be a thing of the past now.

This is the correct answer,

I was the head of engineering and technical manufacturing for Volvo Penta , Mann & Hummel , parker Hannifin and Donaldson. during my life time we purchased a Fram plant as well.
Parker hannifin make filters for Volvo Penta, Mercedes . Iveco etc, the specs are identical except for the overall length of body or the thread diameter on the tap plate which screws to the block . The material thickness for both body plate, tap plate internal spiral wound filter membrane and paper insert / filter medium are all identical.

Mann & Hummel do exactly the same thing, they use the same OEM specifications for manufacturing whether it's their own branded products or OEM standard products. Fram, we found were not the case, body blank material was thinner and the seam analysis of the ends was not good. I've seen a volvo penta engine blow a fram filter to bits under full load. It didnt do this with A VP or Mann filter.
One thing to add though is batch sampling, most production lines only operate a batch sampling so 1000 parts can be detected before a fault is found, some DO get to the market place.

 

[NormanS]

The oil filter on my previous boat, with a 6L3 Gardner, was a cylinder of fine wire gauze. Every year, I extracted it and gave it a wash in diesel. I'm willing to believe that modern engines are slightly more demanding. ?

 

[Moodysailor]

Given that generally on sail boats we change the filter annually then that's only a few hours compared to road users.
Something clean and fresh for that time is as good as it gets.
Isn't it?

Actually, I and a few others would go the other way on this for a number of reasons.

There is a balance to be made, but running less is worse for your engine than you may think. Modern oils do a number of jobs besides basic lubrication, they contain additives that reduce the damage from water that builds up by condensation (from lack of continuous use and thermal cycling), the additives protect the oil from shear when it is cold, and have detergent properties that clean the internal parts of the engine. They also help the oild to stick to the surfaces between uses, reducing stiction and start-up wear.

Some will rubbish this and say that anything good enough for your lawnmower is fine in a boat, others will say that if the oil is golden don't dare change it. My background and experience comes from 27 years as a marine engineer, working in the field as well as for engine manufacturers so I've cut my teeth on enough engines and dealt with enough R&D and oil samples over my time to know that in all the areas I like to save a few quid, genuine spares for the engine is not one - and the engine in our previous boat was a 50yr old Perkins - I still bought my oil & filters from a dealer.

 

[Moodysailor]

Parker hannifin make filters for Volvo Penta, Mercedes . Iveco etc, the specs are identical except for the overall length of body or the thread diameter on the tap plate which screws to the block

This is interesting, your background gives you more insight than me but my experience in the field from pulling quite a few pattern filters off engines showed that more often than not there were differences in the tap plates (qty/dia of holes, shape, etc). I can't remember the exact brands now as it's so long ago. Could it be that they put a different tap plate on?

 

[oldgit]

This is very helpful especially regards if OEM specs are or are not met.
Block Exemption Anybody. ??? No me neither !

On MoBos turbos are usually the first expensive fail and looking at the insides of some of the filters !

 

[madabouttheboat]

​

£6.95​

FIN-FL70234 Filter-Lube(Equivalent: W1140/2, LF3464, B447, 51596) SPECIFICATIONS Part No: Inline FL70234 (Also available as Brand Specific: FBW-B447, FFG-LF3464, FMH-W1140-2) Our Stock Level: 4 Stock at Manufacturer(UK) 3-7 day lead: 29 More Stock: Any further stock usually 2-10 weeks Details: Full-Flow Lube Spin-on. Anti-Drainback Valve 20 PSID By-Pass Valve. Also G381-A I-Gasket. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP.. Updated: 21/11/2021 INLINE TECHNICAL To search for manufacturer's Technical Data on any Inline product click ..... Click Here for Full Specifications

Found a couple of more relevant oil filter videos on Youtube, more UK based , about internal quality of filters.



For run of the mill non specialist filters Bosch and Mann seem to come out well.
Unable to discover a single example of anybody cutting open a Volvo Penta marine filter, would now love to know what lurks within the white canister with its blue writing and as to if folks faith in paying over the odds is justified.
What happens if it is just a bog standard canister with nothing very special inside and some very clever marketing ?
Popped round to my local motor factor in the end and bought a couple of Mann W1140/2 for around £13.00 inc VAT. each.
Went down to the boat to do the oil change and found my oil/diesel transfer pump has now finally died after 10 years of misuse, including pumping out a mixture of water and diesel.
Now waiting for replacement pump to arrive.

to be pedantic, the £7 is actually £8.40 but more importantly the ones you link to are cheap alternatives to Baldwin, which are themselves cheap alternatives to Volvo. They are not even specific about the brand you are buying, just listing them as “inline filters”. While I could get onboard with non OEM filters from a reputable manufacturer, if the savings justified it, I personally wouldn’t fit the ones you have linked to if they were given to me free ?

 

[rotrax]

Baldwin, which are themselves cheap alternatives to Volvo.

I would challenge that, and say that Baldwin are CHEAPER than Volvo filters, but not, as you state, cheap alternatives.

markspark7 has told us that Volvo use filters made for them by several filter companies which are no different internally from filters sold for other ICE engines.

I have found Baldwin filters trouble free over the last 20 years.

I accept that we differ in our view here, but having had direct experience of selling - wholesale and retail - large quantities of fuel and lube filters for automotive use and being involved with the old Crossland brand I will not change my view. Crossland was an ISO company and its filters never gave problems to our customers.

We would sometimes get a small truckload in one delivery at Park Royal as we did export business too. Tuffnells Parcels would deliver. The driver loved it - one stop, all his drops done!

 

[madabouttheboat]

I would challenge that, and say that Baldwin are CHEAPER than Volvo filters, but not, as you state, cheap alternatives.

markspark7 has told us that Volvo use filters made for them by several filter companies which are no different internally from filters sold for other ICE engines.

I have found Baldwin filters trouble free over the last 20 years.

I accept that we differ in our view here, but having had direct experience of selling - wholesale and retail - large quantities of fuel and lube filters for automotive use and being involved with the old Crossland brand I will not change my view. Crossland was an ISO company and its filters never gave problems to our customers.

We would sometimes get a small truckload in one delivery at Park Royal as we did export business too. Tuffnells Parcels would deliver. The driver loved it - one stop, all his drops done!

They are cheaper and they are an alternative, ergo they are cheap alternatives. You are seeing the words as derogatory, but they are not.

OGs £7 quid ones, on the other hand ?

 

[rotrax]

The oil filter on my previous boat, with a 6L3 Gardner, was a cylinder of fine wire gauze. Every year, I extracted it and gave it a wash in diesel. I'm willing to believe that modern engines are slightly more demanding. ?

The Gardners of course were old generation. And none the worse for it!

I used, for 27 years, the same Triumph 6T Thunderbird bottom end with babbit metal big end caps, the hiduminium con rod bore being the other part of the big end bearing.

My dear but sadly late friend Simon built the engine and incorporated a Standard 10 - IIRC - canister oil filter. This was one of the first screw on canisters.

Sadly, Edward Turner incorporated no filtration for his engine but the gauze in the oil tank and another gauze in the return line. Simon diverted the return to a brass fitting he made for the filter, which filtered the return oil only.

I put the long life of the crankshaft and bearings down to this significant improvement to an engine who's genisis was 1936. It was in the airstream and helped cooling the oil too.

The engine was regularly 'freshened up' as it was used in long distance MCC Classic Trials. The bottom end, crankshaft and main ball races, were never changed.

 

[Momac]

​

£6.95​

FIN-FL70234 Filter-Lube(Equivalent: W1140/2, LF3464, B447, 51596) SPECIFICATIONS Part No: Inline FL70234 (Also available as Brand Specific: FBW-B447, FFG-LF3464, FMH-W1140-2) Our Stock Level: 4 Stock at Manufacturer(UK) 3-7 day lead: 29 More Stock: Any further stock usually 2-10 weeks Details: Full-Flow Lube Spin-on. Anti-Drainback Valve 20 PSID By-Pass Valve. Also G381-A I-Gasket. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP. Gasket: G381-A. Contains: AD, HBP.. Updated: 21/11/2021 INLINE TECHNICAL To search for manufacturer's Technical Data on any Inline product click ..... Click Here for Full Specifications

I have used Baldwin filter several years with no issues . They were first fitted to my engines by a well respected Volvo Penta engineer known to this forum .
I have more recently used Mann filters for engine oil .
The crank case breather filters fitted to some VP engines are WIX 46106 . Usually much cheaper than the VP branded filter although possibly a bit scarce at the moment.

I am looking at engine oil prices and seeing prices about 50% higher than they were a year ago from some retailers .

.

 

[oldgit]

Interested to know if anyones confidence in spending extra money on VP filters would remain if on inspection proved to have identical internal components ie. filter medium quality and quantity, pressure relief and drain back components, oil capacity and internal build quality ?
Now rumours of a shortage of replacement boat batteries . No stock at an outlet normally able to supply off the shelf.

 

[Moodysailor]

Interested to know if anyones confidence in spending extra money on VP filters would remain if on inspection proved to have identical internal components ie. filter medium quality and quantity, pressure relief and drain back components, oil capacity and internal build quality ?

I think the answer is fairly obvious, but I'd want to see empirical proof personally, not just that the internals looked the same. Despite my apparent stance on this, I personally don't believe that VP use their own filter spec on e.g a D1/2 series engine, 20xx series or 200x series. Especially in the case of the former two it is known that this engine was not designed by VP. So in these cases it is not a particularly big leap to assume they use a filter spec that is 'stock' from one of their key suppliers.

I know first hand that VP did have some proprietary specs for filters on other engines, and I'm also aware of this with other engine manufacturers I worked with.

 

[NormanS]

Yes, well my engine is a Perkins coated with VERY expensive Volvo green paint. What, other than the colour, suggests that I should use "Volvo" parts including filters?

 

[Moodysailor]

Yes, well my engine is a Perkins coated with VERY expensive Volvo green paint. What, other than the colour, suggests that I should use "Volvo" parts including filters?

I answered that question in the post directly above yours.

I would also add that the price for the genuine Perkins filters for those engines were not that dissimilar to the Volvo Penta prices either - I was around when both versions were in the market and we had both filters on the shelf at the company I worked for at the time.

 

[markspark7]

This is interesting, your background gives you more insight than me but my experience in the field from pulling quite a few pattern filters off engines showed that more often than not there were differences in the tap plates (qty/dia of holes, shape, etc). I can't remember the exact brands now as it's so long ago. Could it be that they put a different tap plate on?

No, not possible, the tap plates are seamed onto the body at the assembly process. If the tap plate is different I would suggest it's either a replica or non oem.

 

[Moodysailor]

No, not possible, the tap plates are seamed onto the body at the assembly process. If the tap plate is different I would suggest it's either a replica or non oem.

Thanks for the reply. This confirms my thought that some (not all) OEM filters are proprietary.

 

[markspark7]

I have used Baldwin filter several years with no issues . They were first fitted to my engines by a well respected Volvo Penta engineer known to this forum .
I have more recently used Mann filters for engine oil .
The crank case breather filters fitted to some VP engines are WIX 46106 . Usually much cheaper than the VP branded filter although possibly a bit scarce at the moment.

I am looking at engine oil prices and seeing prices about 50% higher than they were a year ago from some retailers .

.

Wix is now owned by Mann & Hummel as of 2018. The quality going forward from that date will be comparable to M&H OEM Specs, I cannot say the same for pre 2018.