Oil change every 4 months??

[Obi]

Ive had my boat for nearly 12 months - engine runtime 45 hrs, so I decided to service engine and gearbox.

To my horror - My Perkins 4236 manual states I should change the engine oil every 4 months (or 250 hours whichever is first). Which makes for about £55s of oil from Quicksilver every 4 months. This is more than the bloody fuel cost I incur in four months.

Im going to keep my opinions to myself of this, but my question is:

"Should" I really change my oil every four s****g months? (Ive had 45 hours of engine use in 12 months....)

Even changing the oil after only 12mnths & 45 hours seems over the top....comments please?

(Oh, and the filter too!)


On another note, is there any reason to use Quicksilver 15w 40 instead of Halfords ?

Gearbox oil is still clean and red-ish - do I need to change that too ?

Thanks
M

 

[Cliveshep]

I change oil once a year and use Tesco or Aldi/Lidl oil for the job. I do it when I winterise along with oil filter. I've done this on two Perkins engine boats and later a Thorneycroft engined boat and no problems ever developed.

I never change gearbox oil! Similarly, I never change the ATF on my car.

 

[tel1]

I change oil once a year and use Tesco or Aldi/Lidl oil for the job. I do it when I winterise along with oil filter. I've done this on two Perkins engine boats and later a Thorneycroft engined boat and no problems ever developed.

I never change gearbox oil! Similarly, I never change the ATF on my car.

another vote for tesco oil, its good for the older diesels to. Once a year at winterisation is the standard

 

[SAMYL]

I can't understand why everybody goes to Halfords, it must be the most expensive place on the planet.
Take a trip to your local motor factor and you will get a better choice, price, advice and service imho!

 

[Latestarter1]

Oils

another vote for tesco oil, its good for the older diesels to. Once a year at winterisation is the standard

I cannot get my head around the cavalier approach people have toward oil.

Perkins 4.236 requires a 15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Typical cost of correct 15W40 from agricultural merchants comes out at £1.45 Litre in the useful little 25 litre tubs. Price is better if you purchase 210 Litre barrel however not worth the aggro, lube filter should be no more than £5.

As the 4.235 takes 8 litres of oil in the pan I struggle with the maths at £55 for a lube change.

I am aware of the 4 month time factor in the Perkins manual, however this was amended by the British M.O.D years after publication of the manual to a 6 month interval.

 

[tel1]

I cannot get my head around the cavalier approach people have toward oil.

Perkins 4.236 requires a 15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Typical cost of correct 15W40 from agricultural merchants comes out at £1.45 Litre in the useful little 25 litre tubs. Price is better if you purchase 210 Litre barrel however not worth the aggo, lube filter should be no more than £5.

As the 4.235 takes 8 litres of oil in the pan I struggle with the maths at £55 for a lube change.

I am aware of the 4 month time factor in the Perkins manual, however this was amended by the British M.O.D years after publication of the manual to a 6 month interval.

Cant find the link online but like i said, tesco sell it, 15w40 also says on the tin "suitable for older diesel engines" Its a mineral oil and is fine for the engine. Trust me on this one

 

[LittleShip]

I cannot get my head around the cavalier approach people have toward oil.

Perkins 4.236 requires a 15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Typical cost of correct 15W40 from agricultural merchants comes out at £1.45 Litre in the useful little 25 litre tubs. Price is better if you purchase 210 Litre barrel however not worth the aggro, lube filter should be no more than £5.

As the 4.235 takes 8 litres of oil in the pan I struggle with the maths at £55 for a lube change.

I am aware of the 4 month time factor in the Perkins manual, however this was amended by the British M.O.D years after publication of the manual to a 6 month interval.

Good grief Latestarter.......... we agree on something mind you mine (25ltrs last year) was £42.00. Probably higher now.

Tom

 

[Latestarter1]

Good grief Latestarter.......... we agree on something mind you mine (25ltrs last year) was £42.00. Probably higher now.

Tom

Shall we form a coalition?

 

[sailorman]

I cannot get my head around the cavalier approach people have toward oil.

Perkins 4.236 requires a 15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Typical cost of correct 15W40 from agricultural merchants comes out at £1.45 Litre in the useful little 25 litre tubs. Price is better if you purchase 210 Litre barrel however not worth the aggro, lube filter should be no more than £5.

As the 4.235 takes 8 litres of oil in the pan I struggle with the maths at £55 for a lube change.

I am aware of the 4 month time factor in the Perkins manual, however this was amended by the British M.O.D years after publication of the manual to a 6 month interval.

15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Oh yes is is

Bought my last lot @ B & Q @ a tenner per 5 lts

 

[tel1]

15W40 API CG/CH 4 ACEA E5 which as far as I know is not sold in supermarkets.

Oh yes is is

Bought my last lot @ B & Q @ a tenner per 5 lts

Bugger, that sounds cheaper than tesco!!!

 

[Obi]

Samyl, I just thought Halfrds has GOT to be cheaper than buying QuickSilver from a Chandlery.
I wasnt neccessarily going to go to Halfords, and yep Motorfactors are great, my CAV296 fuel filters cost me about £3 from one, instead of £10 +/- £5 from Chandlery/marine motor specailists. Volvo being hte highest priced ones Ive found.


Latestarter1, Agro Merchants - that's a new one to me. Do you need trade accounts/proof of farmership?

As for your maths on the cost. I wasnt making rash statements. My Perkins manual states 11 litres of Oil is required. At £25-27 for Quicksilver 5lt 15-40 that means 3x £25. OK. Gee, am I vindicated of making rash statements?


M

 

[Fire99]

Personally (and this is purely a personal opinion), an engine remains an engine even when on a boat.
The engine doesn't have sensitive nikasil or aluisil bores nor is made from rare precious materials so for me, If I were using the engine regularly, would use the recommended grade of oil (not special oil) and change it anually.

That's alot of parts/ repairs I could make with the money saved by not spending my entire life changing the oil.

 

[Jim@sea]

Aparrently Texaco make a Diesel Engine Oil which is reputed to be the "best" oil you can buy. The US military use it in the Artic circle and in the "Hot" hotspots. Now as a bit of an expert in oil and I was selling BP Energol, Shell X100, etc many years ago, I would point out that none of the supermarkets have their own refineries (obviously) and they buy it in. But isent most of the oil drained in garages sold to "oil-recyclers" who clean it up and it is sold again for retail sale. Any one can buy cheap oil. If your engine goes the cost of repair (and inconvenience) will make you regret buying cheap.
And I am a great believer in using flushing oil, why not use it every oil change, flush out all the old deposits, you will be suprised how much gunge comes out.

 

[Fire99]

Aparrently Texaco make a Diesel Engine Oil which is reputed to be the "best" oil you can buy. The US military use it in the Artic circle and in the "Hot" hotspots. Now as a bit of an expert in oil and I was selling BP Energol, Shell X100, etc many years ago, I would point out that none of the supermarkets have their own refineries (obviously) and they buy it in. But isent most of the oil drained in garages sold to "oil-recyclers" who clean it up and it is sold again for retail sale. Any one can buy cheap oil. If your engine goes the cost of repair (and inconvenience) will make you regret buying cheap.
And I am a great believer in using flushing oil, why not use it every oil change, flush out all the old deposits, you will be suprised how much gunge comes out.

All fair comment. Being an expert on oil and modern oils don't you think changing it every 4 months in a 'traditional' diesel engine is excessive?

 

[Latestarter1]

Aparrently Texaco make a Diesel Engine Oil which is reputed to be the "best" oil you can buy. The US military use it in the Artic circle and in the "Hot" hotspots. Now as a bit of an expert in oil and I was selling BP Energol, Shell X100, etc many years ago, I would point out that none of the supermarkets have their own refineries (obviously) and they buy it in. But isent most of the oil drained in garages sold to "oil-recyclers" who clean it up and it is sold again for retail sale. Any one can buy cheap oil. If your engine goes the cost of repair (and inconvenience) will make you regret buying cheap.

And I am a great believer in using flushing oil, why not use it every oil change, flush out all the old deposits, you will be suprised how much gunge comes out.

I am no subscriber to to so called 'best oils' and other brand BS. Lube salesmen have a difficult job, meeting somebody like me is their worst nightmare. One thing and one thing only is important the detailed spec on the can. If the viscosity and API/ACEA spec is correct for the application, the price is right, regardless of coming from ASDA or B&Q go for it. Supermarkets purchase from decent quality approved suppiers, remember it is their name on the container, they will be the ones who get nailed.

Recycled oils are generally used for lower grade low cost oils in gasoline applications. I am not aware of any re-cyled oils which meet ACEA E5 and have a read across to any of the manufacturers specific approvals, for example Cummins CES, Mercedes 228 or Volvo VDS.

As for flushing oils majority of engine makers prohibit their use in diesel engines, VW for example, flushing oil destroys the hydraulic lifters. Diesel engines employ detergents which keep soot in suspension, which is why oil goes black soon after lube change with no detriment to lubricant performance.

We have established that a six month lube interval is perfectly acceptable, damage done to idle motors comes from sweating/condensation inside crankcase mixing with combustion deposits in the used lube oil which cause acid attack to bearings. If you take lube sample, leave engine unused for six months, sample again, you will likely find that TAN# is higher on second sample.

 

[mattnj]

the "best oils" have a place, but i agree, probably a complete waste of money for normal, light use, they would however come into their own in an overheat situation, say you are running it flat out for a long period then have a cooling issue and internal temps rise, much more capable of managing....but again, not really relevant or worthwhile.

as an example, we run a track day race car, which in normal, even heavy "thrashing" road use, the oil temp will not go over 70deg, ever, get it on the track and it will go over 130deg very quickly, and stay there all day.....that is a good example of no place for cheap oil...

 

[Trundlebug]

Ive had my boat for nearly 12 months - engine runtime 45 hrs, so I decided to service engine and gearbox.

To my horror - My Perkins 4236 manual states I should change the engine oil every 4 months (or 250 hours whichever is first). Which makes for about £55s of oil from Quicksilver every 4 months. This is more than the bloody fuel cost I incur in four months.

Im going to keep my opinions to myself of this, but my question is:

"Should" I really change my oil every four s****g months? (Ive had 45 hours of engine use in 12 months....)

Even changing the oil after only 12mnths & 45 hours seems over the top....comments please?

(Oh, and the filter too!)


On another note, is there any reason to use Quicksilver 15w 40 instead of Halfords ?

Gearbox oil is still clean and red-ish - do I need to change that too ?

Thanks
M

To answer the OP's questions:

1. An annual engine oil change will almost certainly be fine unless you exceed 45 hours. The manual for my Volvo Pentas states 100 hours or annually and it takes the same grade of oil. (Even made in the same factory if truth be told). With sump capacity of 9 litres instead of your 8, so very similar.

Remember that manufacturers will try to protect themselves and their reputation (and warranties) so will err on the cautious side in their recommendations.

However, you should be mindful of the kind of use the engines get in the season: short journeys where the engine doesn't get properly hot (i.e. fully warm) are more damaging to the oil than longer trips, just as with car engines. On the whole, I'd say change it once a year and it'll be fine.

2. As regards changing the gearbox oil, I would recommend changing that
either annually or every other year, depending upon what it looks like when you drain it out. If it still looks clean and clear, extend the interval until you think it's worth changing.

On my boat the previous owner never changed the gearbox oil in 10 years (recommended annually) and it came out black and full of bits. After changing it 3 times in 3 years in my ownership it's now coming out clean, so I'll extend to every other year I think.
3. On which type oil oil to buy, my recommendation is always, "Get the right oil at the lowest cost". In other words, as has been inferred above, as long as it's the right viscosity and grade (API etc), forget about the label. It's been made to a standard, and is therefore the same regardless of how pretty the packaging is. Branding only provides a bit more confidence, and it's a question of how much extra you're willing to pay for being reassured.

Hope that helps.

 

[Latestarter1]

Please can let me explain,

Mattmj, I have no interest in ragging the brains out of boutique gasoline motors; I have spent pretty much my whole working life involved in the design of diesel engines to make them durable, reliable and fuel efficient. Running lube at 130C is no recipe for long engine life as it has likely suffered irreversible shear. I would be designing a proper lube oil cooler.

During the development of a new engine manufacturer carries out extensive field trials to establish best cost/benefit to the eventual end user as well as a decent worldwide availability. Sometimes we had to ask lube manufacturers to ‘tweak’ a certain classification slightly. This leads to the label showing oil meeting different manufacturer’s tests as well as the specific grade, Cummins CES, Mercedes 228, Volvo VDS, VW 5XX etc etc, which often defines the lube oils base stock.

Now we come to poor old lube salesman, specs are specs and against an informed purchaser there is a simple argument ‘does it meet the spec for engines X,Y and Z’ if so how much per litre. No ifs or buts.

Salesman is trying to sell expensive lube (with potentially more margin) may sometimes try to convince customer his oil will last longer than manufacturers recommendation, in order to assist his cost/benefit argument, then the trouble starts. Salesman may also claim his lube offers X% improvement in fuel economy. Er yes is does but only from start up in a stone cold engine until operating temperature is reached. In other words ten pennyworth of bugger all.

Trundlebug, I broadly agree with your response, however i would be interested in the empirical data on effects of bearing acid attack you are using to advise draining oil annually on such a low hour duty cycle?

 

[gjgm]

The Kads are 100-200 hours , or annually, though I remain slightly curious as to what happens in month 13

 

[Trundlebug]

Trundlebug, I broadly agree with your response, however i would be interested in the empirical data on effects of bearing acid attack you are using to advise draining oil annually on such a low hour duty cycle?

Not sure if you're implying I am suggesting changing the oil too frequently or not frequently enough, but despite my own fears of the dreaded acid attack there is a contributor to these forums who I seem to recall has stated he checks his oil by lab analysis and now only changes it about every 3 years, although he changes the filter annually I think.

Just goes to show there is a fair degree of safety margin in these things, and whilst I personally wouldn't dream of doing that, he has the tools, and lab tests to stand by his findings so fair do's!

For me, whilst the consequences of not changing oil often enough are both expensive and inconvenient, I would like to think that changing annually is both easy (to remember, to schedule, to find time for) and affordable.

Given that other similar engines have annual recommendations I really can't see it being a problem. I really couldn't justfiy changing the oil after only 45 hours - that's way over the top to me. They must be expecting serious blow-by past the rings, or **** injectors, and I can't believe a decent make such as Perkins are that bad.

As with any engine though, you can tell a great deal just by feeling the oil on the dipstick. If it's gritty, watery and smelly, change it. If it's slimy, it's OK still. So check it at 45 hours and see what you think. Bound to be at least a bit dirty, and probably very black, but has it thinned down and gone gritty? I doubt it.

Just my opinion though!