Oh goody, goody another anchor debate

I read this last night. mmm, I know if I were going out to buy an anchor it would be fairly straightforward. It would have to be one of the new ones.

However, as I read the report I tried to think of an incident where our CQR didn't dig in, none; in fact nearly every time it is recovered it has a wodge of sea bed on it!

What I am kicking myself over is that I let a Fortress go with our last boat, it was a kedge and never was used!
 
I would've thought that unless you're off for extended cruising you're not going to go and buy a new anchor just because YM said it doesn't perform as well as some others. You're going to buy a new anchor (or anchor gear) because you've had problems with it's holding ... Our CQR is now 11 years old ... I can't see us replacing it ... although we may increase the length of chain that is attached ....
 
I found it to be a rather unsatisfactory article in some ways. Odd how YM's interpretation of the results seems to differ from that of West Marine, Rocna and Spade (see the thread on PBO) The latter two have their own axes to grind, of course, and are always at each other's throats. There also seems to be some doubt about the way the load was applied and, reading between the lines, I suspect the power application of the test boat to have been rather over-vigorous.

However, the results seem to be very much in line with general trends in the many anchor tests carried out over the years. What needs to be borne in mind is that the loads recorded are very high indeed, far more than the average yachtsman will ever see. Which probably explains why the thousands of satisfied users of CQRs cannot understand why their anchor fares so badly.

On the Fortress, I have used mine in some big blows and it undoubtedly holds very well indeed. My findings are that it is very poor at rebedding when the tide or wind turn, particularly at very light loads. I assume that its very light weight mitigates against its resetting in these circumstances. For this reason I will never anchor overnight on it.

Once again the Bruce design (Claw) did very badly. Yet many here will no doubt say that they have total faith in theirs. Anchor tests are a strange phenomenon!
 
Surely the tests are only to sell magazines and to prove to the rest of us that peeps' ability to anchor properly is inversely related to their interest in such tests /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Did you say that you have read them? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John
 
Happy with our CQR neatly stowed on the bow anchor roller ready for deployment. It never dragged, even when we have 6 other boats rafted off us in a F6 (ie we were the only anchor). Will probably buy a fortress as a backup/second anchor with 5m of chain and the rest rope (light and disassembles so easy to stow in a locker).
 
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However, the results seem to be very much in line with general trends in the many anchor tests carried out over the years. What needs to be borne in mind is that the loads recorded are very high indeed, far more than the average yachtsman will ever see. Which probably explains why the thousands of satisfied users of CQRs cannot understand why their anchor fares so badly.


[/ QUOTE ]

They even said that the expected load expected on the size of boat the anchors would suit were below 2000lbs but then pulled them at up to 5000lbs to simulate snatch loads. Well snatch loads are momentary by definition are they not rather than continuous at 5000lbs? They also admitted that in a later side test with a smaller engined boat the anchors that failed to set before now did set.

I have always felt that snatch loads were a significant cause of a set anchor to break out. That is why on our all-chain rode we always use a nylon snubber line with a rubber mooring compensator (gondolastic or similar) incorporated in it to transfer the chain load from windlass to deck cleat. The stretch from the snubber eliminates the snatch completely, we even carry a 'storm' version with a stiffer rubber compensator for really bad conditions.

As you say, this is why no doubt that existing designs have proven OK and certainly not poor as this and other tests suggest. That said the new designs do seem very good, at least in the conditions tested. It is a shame perhaps that some are not more user-friendly in terms of handling and bow roller stowage, another importany factor in the selection process.

We carry a Delta on the bow, a CQR backup and a Fortress. I will not be rushing out to change any of these as I have been well satisfied with ours. If I was speccing a new boat however, then maybe I would consider a new type.
 
""We carry a Delta on the bow, a CQR backup and a Fortress. I will not be rushing out to change any of these as I have been well satisfied with ours. If I was speccing a new boat however, then maybe I would consider a new type. ""

Entirely agree. We carry a 35lbs CQR with 50 metres of chain (+ 50 metres of anchorplait) on the bow, have another 35lbs CQR (same chain/rope spec) as 'back-up bower', a Fortress FX16 (20 metres chain + anchorplait) as further back-up, and a 15lbs Bruce (15 metres chain + 50 metres anchorplait) as a kedge.

So far, in UK, Med and Caribbean waters, the CQR has never failed to set and hold, even in some very windy/bouncy conditions. Yes, we've used the second CQR a few times, but have not yet had to resort to adding the Fortress!! The relatively small Bruce has held us stern-to in a full force 7 and never moved an inch.

Of course, there have been odd times when we have had to have two or three goes to set the CQR well, but once there it ain't moved!!

In my view, too few people take the the time (or have the patience) to allow their anchor to set properly before pulling it well in. In our case, we allow the time then, if the anchor won't hold at 3/4 throttle astern, we start again.

As someone said earlier, the Med. can be a difficult area in places to get some anchors to hold (at least first time), but then, we've sat and watched many boats, with many different anchor types having exactly the same problem! Great though it would be, I am therefore VERY doubtful that there yet exists an 'all singing all dancing anchor'!!

So, like you and others, we won't be rushing out to buy a 'better' in the forseeable future either!!
 
" We carry a Delta on the bow, a CQR backup and a Fortress. "

Exactly the same as me. The Delta has never failed to be excellent, in 15 years. We lay to the Delta plus the Fortress in a very big blow in Sardinia this year but more to reduce the veering than for reasons of doubting the holding of the Delta. This it did very well. The Fortress was impossible to break out from the tender afterwards, forcing us to move the boat over it.
 
if you are anchoring around U.K. where bottoms are mostly mud.. the CQR works.. but if you go sailing, for example in the MED, with hard sand and/or weed .. your CQR will be simply useless.. I started living aboard my boat in the MED equipped with a CQR.. and this is why I did design the SPADE.. as I had too many problems with the CQR…

It is more and more accepted now (and will be even more in the near future) that the 'new generation' anchors outperform by far the old concepts like the CQR and the Bruce..

But if you are hapy with yours.. don't change!.. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Kelp

We've seen kelp and other weed in the west of scotland as long as our boat, with stalks up to about 5cm in diameter. Our normally excellent 35lb CQR (35m chain) won't work in that. We've found that the traditional fisherman's anchor is fine in those situations - don't know the weight, but know it's heavier than the CQR.

We've found the CQR/Fisherman's combination to be ideal for us, whether used singly or doubled. We also carry a third anchor, a 25lb Plough, but it has never been used. We don't feel any need to buy another one.
 
Glad to say all my subs to the yachting media have just run out. They'll have to work to get me back at the London Show...
And "Sail" is definately a no no although they published the same anchor test a month before YM..
Sorry if it's off thread but to keep you happy, I have a CQR as best bower and a Bruce as a kedge..
Cheers Bob E....
 
Re: another anchor debate

The design case for anchor and rode is snatching. let's assume all sensible people reduce the snatching by using a nylon spring, either as part of the rode or by ading a snubber. Some snatching still remains.

But there are two types of snatching - pitching, due to waves, and yawing, due to wind.

Yawing shifts the angle of pull laterally by up to 60 degrees on some vessels. CQR hinges deal quite well with that problem. Rigid shank anchors shift their angle more, and have a bigger risk of tripping and needing to re-set.

Pitching is most commonly met in the Med, mooring bows or stern to, or with a line ashore, when the wind suddenly blows from an embarrasing direction. But the lateral angle of pull stays constant. Rigid shank anchors come into their own in this situation.

And, as Jerryat said, anyone who doesn't test their anchor set with the engine running astern sufficiently to stretch the rode nearly straight is only asking for trouble if the wind comes up. Your snatches will put far greater force on that rode!

My CQR has consistently been more difficult to dig in than my flat anchor (a Brittany). Once dug in, the CQR has only failed to hold in very soft mud (Levkas town quay, and somewhere in SW Ireland).

Tests that don't take account of varying angles of snatch will only be valid for mooring stern or bows to, or line ashore.
 
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<span style="color:blue"> What would you use in kelp? </span>

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I was once in St Malo bay with a sailing magazine journalist on a big motor boat, doing anchor tests..

After a muddy and a sandy bottom we went to a place well reputed for weed.

The journalist tooks both a Fisherman anchor and a grapnel .. and as I was laughing, he told me that it was the only anchors which worked on weed.

We throw both.. and no one did penetrate and hold.. and the journalist conclusion was that the weed was too dense and that no anchor could work in such a situation.. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I had to strongly insist to try one, in fact two different brands, “new generation” anchors and both set immediately and hold.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

When publishing the Article, the journalist wrote that the “new generation” anchors are much better for difficult situations such as weed..

As I tell my kids often "don't slag something until you've tried it".
Is that a relevant statement here?? I suspect it maybe . /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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