Oh dear, when will they learn?

lydiamight

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Doesn't exactly give the best of messages to the non-boating community. The MCA might also have used a less attention grabbing headline than "Two young men LOST in speedboat" My first thought was that they had drowned.

Monday 17 July 2006 00:20
Maritime And Coastguard Agency (National)

TWO YOUNG MEN LOST IN SPEEDBOAT ON THAMES ESTUARY


At twenty minutes to nine this evening, Thames Coastguard received a 999 call made from a mobile telephone owned by one of two young men reporting being lost in a speedboat on the Thames Estuary.

The two men had made their way out of Maldon, on the River Blackwater heading for Burnham on Crouch, when they got lost and had run aground on one of the numerous sandbanks in the Thames Estuary.

By the time they had made their call daylight was fading, the two did not know where they were, and their mobile phone battery had gone dead. Fortunately Thames Coastguard had managed to obtain some information from the two with regard to what they could see around them.

Thames Coastguard called out Coastguard rescue teams from Margate, Southend and Herne Bay. Five RNLI lifeboats from Sheerness, Walton, Whitstable, and Margate. A RAF helicopter was also scrambled from Wattisham, who successfully located the two using their infra-red camera. They were winched off the speedboat uninjured and landed at Southend Airport to be met by their parents.

The two men are aged twenty and twenty one and come from Chelmsford.

Keith Cattermole, Watch manager, Thames Coastguard said:

"This incident highlights once again, resources being called out to rescue persons ill equipped for the journey they are undertaking.

These two men were out on the water, with very little life saving apparatus. They had lifejackets, but were not carrying any flares, charts, anchor or a marine VHF radio to talk direct to the coastguard.

A mobile phone is not a suitable replacement for a marine VHF radio for distress communications on the water."

Press releases and further information about the Agency is available on the Web at http://www.mcga.gov.uk

Client ref Duty Notice 2

GNN
 
IMHO it's time to review the RYA's policy of "Educate not Legislate" - there are just too many people on the water these days who are ill-equipped to be there.
Yesterday a speedboat launched from the yard (Sunday freebie, no-one around) and was doing 15 knots through the moorings. Not a lifejacket, compass, chart or VHF in sight.

I'm waiting for Small_Boat_Champ to blow a fuse - they went right past his berth!!!
 
Well I guess they were getting pretty poor information from the couple. Sitting on a speedboat on the putty on the Maplins would leave you a bit devoid of recognisable marks. I suppose you could go straight passed the Crouch if you had no notion of passage planing and no aids. I wonder if they learnt anything?
 
Yes, they learned that they can behave like t**ts and someone else will get them out of trouble free of charge. It'll be something to tell their mates dahn the pub. Bet they had St George flags on their cars.
 
Yes, but FIVE lifeboats and a helicopter? Apart from being a bit lost what ACTUAL danger were they in?

And - getting on current pet hobbyhorse - what about their 'Passage Plan'? IIUC they had none and so were breaking the law. What is the point of legislation if its not enforced / enforceable? Just proves my point. People who know how to set up a Passage Plan will do so anyway, and people who dont will go out anyway, and will continue to need a lifeboat.
 
My berth ...

My boat should be back on B28 ??? Don't tell me I'm on outside again ??

RICHARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Completely agree - if we have to have this legislation let's see it enforced OR stop passing new knee-jerk laws to keep the Daily Mail/Soaraway Scum happy every ten minutes.

When will someone tell new boaters about the huge fun they can have buying manly kit, like bolt-cutters, waterproof VHFs, rocket flares, charts and Douglas protractors and big knives you can stick in your belt? No sense of adventure with these people, they won't even go in a chandlery.

Now, that's what I call real bravery.
 
And STILL there are people on this forum who are against some form of compulsory training/licence before you're allowed to be in charge.

A driving licence does not keep idiots from the road, but at least you know they know (or should know) how to park a car & what the roadsigns mean.

Not everyone should be a YM, but IMHO knowing how to park your boat, day shapes, VHF knowledge & charts+symbols is the bare minimum.

If not compulsary - anyone without a basic ticket (independently tested) should be made to pay the full cost of his/her rescue.
 
[ QUOTE ]
And STILL there are people on this forum who are against some form of compulsory training/licence before you're allowed to be in charge.


[/ QUOTE ]

yep - and I am one

they were no different from hill walkers, divers, climbers etc or, if you widen it a bit, football and rugby layers cluttering up overworked casualty facilities........... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Still some on Forums .... Yep - I\'m one !

Why ?

Simple answer really ... The level of training that would be imposed would either a) be totally inadequate and a joke or b) un-enforceable ...

a) Would an ICC be OK ? Or do you go for higher level.

b) Who's going to check every Tom Dick and Harry who get's a Speedboat out of the local paper etc., let alone the number of boats out there.

No-one says it's a bad thing in itself - it's just that it can't be policed .... too many slipways / areas / beaches that the usual "[--word removed--]" can launch from ...

Jet Ski's have been a pain for years - how much has been improved ... quite a lot voluntary - but still a long way to go ...

Sorry but as a Pro Mariner - I don't think a piece of paper is the answer.

I live in Baltic - where licences are required - Huh !! That's a joke - I see more idiots as a %age of boats over here than in UK ....
 
If not compulsory - anyone without a basic ticket (independently tested) should be made to pay the full cost of his/her rescue"

The problem with this is that people will be put off calling for help until it's too late. That's why the RNLI is dead against charging salvage. Even if they do think those on board are utter plonkers, they'd much rather tow a boat in in daylight and decent weather than be looking for bodies at night or in a storm.

The disadvantage of a licence is that it only guarantees that the holder was able to jump through certain hoops on a particular day, in good weather. 99% of those who put to sea would be able to do that - and more, but you can't legislate for common sense. You get a few mm of snow in London and everything grinds to a halt 'cos a few idiots still go out, without the slightest idea of how to deal with the conditions. The same idiots will still go out on unsafe boats and/or conditions with or without a licence, 'cos they've no conception of the risks.

Where would you draw the line for a licence? boats with cabins? anything with an engine? What about sailing dinghies - or rowing dinghies - or canoes - or the little inflatables sold in supermarkets to drown holidaymakers on beaches?

Also, what do you do with the bloke who's been sailing for years - makes Cunliffe look like a beginner, but never bothered to get a piece of paper? Does he have to take a test. Is the bloke who did a Day Skipper 10 years ago and never set foot on a boat since going to have to retake it?

I've got a DS ticket. It means I'm (supposedly /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) fit to be let loose in familiar waters in daylight. Do I need a Coastal Skipper or Yachtmaster to go across the channel or sail at night?
 
Re: Still some on Forums .... Yep - I\'m one !

Yup, I agree with Duncan and others. I'm vehemently against any form of licensing as it won't solve the problems people think it will - as you can witness on our roads on a daily basis.

It also smacks a little of pulling the ladder up after ourselves - not allowing kids today to find things out the way we did when we were kids.

Rick
 
Well I agree but this is the problem with the 'Duty of Care'. If the Coastguard here someone say they are in trouble, lost or whatever, it would be a foolhardy Duty Officer who said 'well that's your fault'. At the risk of triggering an explosion of responses, I think the answer is that in the absence of proper equipment, without a passage plan and no immenient danger to life, then they should be billed for the RNLI. I know that the RNLI pride themselves with their free service but the world has changed around the RNLI and I think the time has come to respond.

The trouble with licencing is that you need someone to enforce it and that costs more money and frankly it don't work too well on the roads so why should it at sea. The trouble is that you can buy a shiny boat that looks like it can do anything without any special precautions - start the motor and off you go. Going up the Wallet a couple of years ago, a boat appeared from over the Gunfleet Sands and asked us the way to the Blackwater. Turns out the middle aged couple had just headed north from the Medway over all the sands until they met Essex. By which time they were short of fuel and the tide was ebbing making them at least two hours from a fuel pump. We sugested they follow us to Harwich which they did where they promptly disappeared.
 
Re: Still some on Forums .... Yep - I\'m one !

..and lets keep a sense of proportion here. For every pillock like the ones described at the start of this thread, there were hundreds of thousands of us out enjoying ourselves on the water, safely, knowledgeably, properly equipped.

The trouble is its the pillocks who get noticed.

Also, I suspect that the CG, RNLI, helicopter etc use the incident as a training exercise, and thats ok by me.

I am dead against licensing, testing etc. I am very pro education and training, encouraging people to go for Comp crew, DS, YM etc but voluntarily.
 
I honestly believe

We have enough rubbish to contend with on boats - without adding this Licence Codswallop to it.

If you want to volunteer to take a licence - then you have my admiration for wanting to learn and know more. You will most likely want to know all matters in it.
But a compulsory system will only mean people doing minimum to pass and get a piece of paper.

Consider that there are so-called "Licences . Certificates" that are issued for attendance - not knowledge .......... that subject has been beaten to death on here previously.

I find it remarkable that posts were made about issued papers to useless people for attendance and here we have discussion about compulsory licencing ... maybe we should all attend and get a piece of paper - good or bad ?? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Re: I honestly believe

[ QUOTE ]
I find it remarkable that posts were made about issued papers to useless people for attendance and here we have discussion about compulsory licencing ... maybe we should all attend and get a piece of paper - good or bad ?? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you that most RYA certificates are nothing more than certificates of attendance. What I would argue for is some sort of independent evaluation board. You don't have to attend a course if you don't want to - feel you're up to it - go take the test.

Every week you can see people wanting to get into a finger berth sideways, get lost, etc... . Something basic to assess basic boat handling & nav is - IMHO - long overdue.

As to enforcement - the police don't check every driver to see if they've got a licence... . You mess up, you don't have one, and you’re on you own. No insurance, nothing! Should be enough as an incentive!
 
Two weeks in the bay of St Malo and CIs and I didn't hear anyone calling coastguards on 16 for radio checks, didn't hear any boats asking for assistance. Perhaps over there they are more clued up before they go out and bear in mind that a call out is chargeable if it is through stupidity (run out of fuel, lost steering (oh, cancel the mayday, sorry, still had the autopilot on,har har) and all the rest that one can expect to hear on a good solent weekend, especially if it kicks up to 20 knots plus. - In fact the only pan pans there was re a swimmer who had been swept out by the tide and a couple who had capsized a training dinghy and were again being swept by the tide.
Could still hear Brixham and Portland CGs' working well, 'though.
Did hear ST Peter Port harbour master give a rollicking on 16
to a fishing boat, quoting his number, for speeding in the harbour. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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