Off to look at my first yacht tomorrow! Advice sought!

7htas

7htas

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I am going to look at some yachts tomorrow; after seeing an advertisement stating that they had "a range of boats" for sale. I'm guessing that the guy owns a storage place (from where he directed me to go; it almost certainly is) - said he had a Hurley, and a Pandora and a couple of others.

With the above in mind, am I likely to run into any problems with purchasing from this chap?

I'm being assumptive here; but I'm guessing the reason he owns these boats, is because he has "acquired" them from people who have been using his storage space, and not paid!

What do I look for when buying a boat? Is it the same like a car, with a registration certificate and the like?
 
He should be able to give you a bill of sale to confirm clear title. A plausible back story about how he acquired the boat would be good too!
If you're looking at trailer sailers, there's possibly more to go wrong in the trailer than the boat itself.
He should be able to demonstrate an outboard running for you in a bucket of water, an inboard not so easily.
Check the rigging wires; any damage at all (broken strands, bent fittings) will condemn that particular wire. Ideally rigging should be no more than ten years old.
Do you have a clear idea of what you want to use a boat for? That will affect what size/type is best for your needs.
 
I'm planning on becoming a liveaboard; when I finish my Merchant Navy training- that is a few years away; so well and truly on the back burner!
I've done some dingy sailing recently, and I'm seriously thinking of getting something smaller that I can potter about on in the Irish sea, firstly to prepare me for the jump up to something bigger, and the second reason being; that when I finish my cadetship (next summer) - the likelihood of me working on a bulk carrier as an officer is slim- (which is what I want to do) -a lot of cadets that are "churned out" - end up in the offshore sector- wind farms etc - and I want to use my time "messing about" and put it to some use towards the "sea time" required for the yacht masters course(not sure my commercial working on bulkies will count). I figure the stuff I'm doing for my COC will eclipse most of the YM stuff; and it will make my CV more desirable when the inevitable time comes, where I have to work on fast cats, or what ever.

I'm looking for something that I can keep on a swing moorings, locally(Wirral)- as I don't own a car.
 
It is entirely possible that chappy can sell boats legitimately based upon outstanding storage dues. But, there should be a clear legal trail for you to see.

Just apply common sense and don't buy on impulse :encouragement: Don't be rushed, look at a few within your price range. You'll soon see the difference between a dog and your first pride and joy. Preferably take an old salt with you. Remember that the boat is only a small part of the cost of ownership. Open your eyes.

I'm sure you've read that there are only two happy days of boat ownership. The day you buy one and the day you sell it. On that basis, you're about to experience a happy day of boat ownership so I hope you have a lot of fun in your search.

Don't be afraid to walk away. Always post questions on here and then completely ignore the contradictory advice being offered.

Good luck......let us know how you get on :encouragement:
 
That's helpful advice!

I'm going to go over, and just make a note of the models names , and prices of all the boats he has there; and then come back and do some boat research (suitability for me) and market research as well.

Cheers DJ, and Mavanier
 
Finding a boat to buy is only part of the package of getting onto the water? Moving a boat onto transport requires a crane or Hiab maybe. Boats over maybe 23 ft become increasingly difficult to tow even on a good trailer.

I would look into the mooring too before you buy a boat. You have to consider how to get to the boat on its mooring, how sheltered the mooring is when the wind is strong and how sheltered in winter too - you may not want to leave the boat there all winter.

Consider visiting a local sailing club to find out what happens locally?

What starts quickly often ends quickly, so take your time gathering lots of ideas and info - it's a buyers' market and likely to remain so, so don't feel any pressure to rush. Good salespeople will tell you someone else is interested and coming to view later that afternoon...resist it!

But I'm not being negative - sailing is for many a wonderfully varied fulfilling and engaging pastime that can hardly be bettered.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty level headed about it all, I've been after a yacht actively for about 4 or 5 years, but I've had to go down a long winded path to get me to my destination. I'm a little worried about buying something small, that might put me off the end goal (a live aboard) - I just see these little 18/19/20 ft yachts going for buttons, and think "why not?"
 
Sounds like you're taking a sensible approach to me. A lot of people these days start later in life with a 35 footer as their first boat. Learning in dinghies before moving up to a small and manageable yacht is definitely a great way to learn imo.
 
If he has siezed the boats under a Lien against a debt, there should be a clear trail of correspondence.

IIRC-I had to do it a couple of times-notice must be served within a time frame.

I used recorded post for this and got the signeture from the PO.

I hope this helps.
 
7htas said:
Is it the same like a car, with a registration certificate and the like?
Click to expand...

For the sort of boat it sounds like you're buying - not usually. There is an optional form of registration called the Small Ships Register (SSR) which one or two might possibly have, but probably not and SSR doesn't prove ownership anyway. The legal side of selling a small cheap boat is not really any different from any other possession that someone might sell, like a fridge or a snooker table. The added wrinkle in this case is that you want to be sure the items are his to sell - same as someone clearing a lockup garage - but selling abandoned boats to recoup the storage fees is a fairly normal thing so doesn't raise red flags per se.

Pete
 
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7htas said:
Yeah, I'm pretty level headed about it all, I've been after a yacht actively for about 4 or 5 years, but I've had to go down a long winded path to get me to my destination. I'm a little worried about buying something small, that might put me off the end goal (a live aboard) - I just see these little 18/19/20 ft yachts going for buttons, and think "why not?"
Click to expand...

Suggest you get a copy of the RYA book on buying second hand boats. Talks you through the process, what to look out for, the documentation needed and has checklists to help you.

The boats you are looking at go for buttons because they have little value. Any work you need to do or major bits you have to buy cost way out of proportion to your purchase price and value. So only worth buying if they are complete and ready to go. Worth spending a little more to achieve that rather than getting a cheap project that needs work - unless of course it is the work that appeals!

Think carefully about living on a boat that small on a swinging mooring. It really is life at its most basic (I know I have done it) and very restrictive if you want any sort of work or social life. OK for short periods in the summer, but challenging year round. It starts to get tolerable when the boat is 25'+ and you can get a berth with walk ashore. Then you can stop being a hermit.
 
You have got and need to get good advice on title of the boat. As said.
However your biggest challenge is in deciding what kind of boat to buy. On the one hand it is vastly best to buy your last boat first. Selling a boat is a real pain. A boat that is too small is likely to put you off ocean sailing and living on board. On the other hand a small boat is small investment cheaper to keep and can be a lot of fun.
As said the cost of keeping a boat is large compared to the cost of buying.
Re rigging wire. Just replace it anyway. You can only assume it is old and will let you down with disastrous results after 15 years or so. good luck olewill
 
best of luck! Try and leave the rose tinted specs at home.don't be fooled into the 'it only this or that doing',these things have a habit of escalating. Pity i don't follow my own advice.........
 
Thanks guys! I've also seen this

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/109086733/sihouette-mk3.html

Silhouette MK3, 17foot 3inch overall, beam 6feet 7inch, draft 2feet 1inch, SSR registered, two berth, has new s/s standing rigging, new running rigging, new mainsail all June 2013, s/s rudder shaft, spinnaker and pole, cooker, Nasa depth sounder, Nasa log, masthead tricolour and masthead vhf antenna, compass, solar panel, 85 amp battery, fenders, ground tackle, mooring lines, new upholstery 2013, antifouled March 2013 (4 coats) 5hp outboard, inflatable tender no leaks no patches with outboard, purpose built heavy duty trailer with two spare wheels, boat lying on trailer at my home, This boat is ready to go, a complete package just add water.
Click to expand...

All seems ideal and relatively "ready to go" - providing that the above is true.

Will report back later on what the storage chap has to offer.
 
The better value boats are almost always the ones that are in use as they have been maintained and everything is usually functioning. A boat that has been a live aboard will generally be sorted, if you get one that needs work think about re wiring, rigging, new ropes sails and probably batteries, stern gear / bearings. What you won't see with the mast up is any corrosion on mast fittings, mast head wiring/nav lights. Otherwise look at as many boats as you can even those that aren't in your wish list, you may be surprised. My last boat was a Bavaria for an atlantic circuit, I was originally planning on Nich 38, Rival 38, tradewind, Sweden but the bav did us proud, a really capable long distance cruiser.
 
Tranona said:
Suggest you get a copy of the RYA book on buying second hand boats. Talks you through the process, what to look out for, the documentation needed and has checklists to help you.

The boats you are looking at go for buttons because they have little value. Any work you need to do or major bits you have to buy cost way out of proportion to your purchase price and value. So only worth buying if they are complete and ready to go. Worth spending a little more to achieve that rather than getting a cheap project that needs work - unless of course it is the work that appeals!
Click to expand...

I know that theoretically that is correct, but in the case of sub-20ft boats of this age the paper trail will have expired a long time ago. Don't get hung up on that.
I have bought three trailer-sailers privately and none of the owners has the faintest idea who they had bought them from previously.
 
There's lots of these older, smaller boats about. Don't pay too much - think about offering half asking price. A useful principle that was posted on here is to consider the hull value as zero; value the boat on sails, engine and any other bits and pieces
 
7htas said:
I'm planning on becoming a liveaboard; when I finish my Merchant Navy training- that is a few years away; so well and truly on the back burner!
I've done some dingy sailing recently, and I'm seriously thinking of getting something smaller that I can potter about on in the Irish sea, firstly to prepare me for the jump up to something bigger, and the second reason being; that when I finish my cadetship (next summer) - the likelihood of me working on a bulk carrier as an officer is slim- (which is what I want to do) -a lot of cadets that are "churned out" - end up in the offshore sector- wind farms etc - and I want to use my time "messing about" and put it to some use towards the "sea time" required for the yacht masters course(not sure my commercial working on bulkies will count). I figure the stuff I'm doing for my COC will eclipse most of the YM stuff; and it will make my CV more desirable when the inevitable time comes, where I have to work on fast cats, or what ever.

I'm looking for something that I can keep on a swing moorings, locally(Wirral)- as I don't own a car.
Click to expand...

I think the best advice I could give you is don't rush into anything. I also wouldn't in a hurry to by a boat on a cadets income. Unless of course you are independently wealthy:)

I would advise you to get out on the water if you can and sail a few different types of boat. I cant tell you what the best type of boat for you is you need to figure it out yourself.
It was a long time ago but I learned to sail with the ocean youth club. I think its called the Ocean youth trust now and is a lot smaller.
there is also the STA both organisations used to be looking for vollenteers.
They would be keen to recruit an ex cadet. when you are young and cash strapped its a good way to get out on the water at little or no cost.
Some STA sea time is good. Most isn't. but all the experience is very good. In some ways you could learn a lot of stuff which you just don't get to do a big bulker.

Some of the folks in charge of hiring for big bulkers and other vessels. Find it interesting.

Once you know what kind of sailing you like, you will have an idea what kind of boat you will want.

PS Complete the cadet program. get a Class 3 you won't need the yacht master to find work on a very big very fancy boat. I have quite a few young friends who have worked in the industry for a while. There is an agency which actively recruits some of the graduates from Plymouth and Warsash. Its an acquired taste from what I can tell and not for everyone.
Apparently salty knuckle draggers with tattoos. Are not in big demand even if they have a Class 1
 
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Don't think anyone has suggested this ...

Take photos. 100s. It's amazing how quickly one can either forget what they are seeing or worse 'invent' things.

I saw a boat that I thought ok and on second visit realised how my mind had transformed what I had seen into a palace.

Oh! And lie down on the bunks. First boat I ever got seemed fine on a brief lie down but was never truly comfy due to the height.

Good luck with it.
 
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