OD leg position when getting on and staying on the plane

[BruceK]

Hhhhmmm.

I agree whats the point of a sports cruiser if you're not giving it welly around the channel doglegs on a Friday afternoon departure to get prime anchorage before the flybridge boys can get dibbs?
If she's not heeling 25 degrees you're going neither fast enough nor pushing hard enough

 

[MapisM]

You must be joking, folks.
Show me an outdrive boat where you can suddenly steer hard over at WOT and I'll show you a sedate, rather than a "sport" cruiser.
If you fancy giving that a try at anything above 40kts, don't forget to install a GoPro facing the crew onboard first.
If nothing else, the income from the video would partially compensate the medical costs!

 

[markc]

You must be joking, folks.
Show me an outdrive boat where you can suddenly steer hard over at WOT and I'll show you a sedate, rather than a "sport" cruiser.
If you fancy giving that a try at anything above 40kts, don't forget to install a GoPro facing the crew onboard first.
If nothing else, the income from the video would partially compensate the medical costs!

I think we've all seen 'that' video - in a Fountain IIRC

 

[BruceK]

Mine has a big yellow warning sign not do go full lock at over 40knts, right there by the throttle levers, so I'm guessing 30 something is still OK

No we don't go full lock at high speed, it's not necessary. The boat is very nimble at speed with the wheel 1/3rd to half over will have the boat right over on it's side. Any more and I think she'll lose traction and the stern spin out.

 

[MapisM]

I think we've all seen 'that' video - in a Fountain IIRC

Correct. And that was while going straight!

 

[BruceK]

Correct. And that was while going straight!

If it's the one I'm thinking of the helmsman on a poker run cut throttle passing over a wake causing the stern to rise and then flick up as it crested stuffing the bow in and broaching. Not the same thing at all and I doubt you'll find a sports cruiser capable of the performance to emulate that trick.

 

[MapisM]

Well, if you mean that no ordinary sport cruiser can go anywhere near as fast as a Fountain 38, that's obviously true.
Depending on installed power (and I have no clue about that particular one, in this respect), that's a boat capable of up to 3 digits speed!

But if you think that a spin out can't happen at much lower speeds, well, think again.
As I said, 40kts or so is already enough to require a fair bit of care when steering!

 

[Kawasaki]

Cos I still do some pontoon bashing and some other boaty teachy stuff
Heres what I do
so I arrive at the 'Clients' vessel for the first time
'Canna 'park it an trouble going like a bat outa hell Like BruceK'
'Oh, you have seen his vidoes then'?
'Yeh'
'Look, He aint well, take no notice'
'OK , K' they reply
OK, trying to show peeps about trimmimg etc is pretty well useless for beginners unless the ogin is flat
Its hard to get 'the feel' of whats going on when its bumpy
'Feel' is what it is all about
Not staring at instruments that could be fibbing anyway
I start with everything in , lets call it default mode or leg/legs 'in and tabs in bow down
'Hit it' to get the plot on the plane in that mode
Lets say 18/20 kts on a typical sports boat to make sure
Then I adjust the legs, not before
Over the years I have found that 'dabbing' at the leg trim control/ controls confuses
Normally after getting on the Plane I would apply 2/3 seconds of trim and see what happens
Get the leg/legs sorted first at that kind of early planing speed
Happy with that I would now experiment with the trim tabs
Similar
No 'dabbing' but a few seconds of trim added and see how She handles and perfoms
Having got that combination of trim sorted at those speeds and revs
Apply WOT and feel what happens then
Normally most sports boats will tend to 'bow down' a little
So then again I adjust the legs next and see and feel what happens
Then 'fine tune' with the Tabs
Some sports boats 'chine walk' as we know
Tabs normally can help stop that phenomenon
All this I do by feel
Going in a straight line sorted
Next 'feel' is doing tight turns at various speeds
Yep,legs may need trimming 'down' depending on the hull form and boat

Look, thats just what I do, and will do again in the next couple of days
Two Bayliner sports boats to do , yes maybe I have instructed on the same or similar models before
But the prop/props may have a different pitch/diameter, the hulls maybe a bit dirty etc
So no good reffering to previous vessels and their 'dials'
Yes,it's hard for the RYA plus any other training Firm/organisation to write and print how it all works
All 'they' can do is try and explain with pictures and diagrams etc
Yes helpfull in most cases but can confuse too
OK, going on two Bayliners as I said
Very similar boats
But, how much fuel in one, how many people aboard
How much lager and wine and where stored?
All sorts of weight distribution differences, which makes a heck of a difference
Best Tip/Tips I can give
Start with everything in 'bow down' mode
Don't 'dab' when adjusting, use incremental momentary seconds ( jeeps does that make sense) and just 'Feel' what is happening
Then when the 'settings' feel good
Check out the dials and instruments which should show were the legs and tabs are
Then when You think you have it sorted
The next day the sea is not quite so smooth
Half the lager has been drunk
Granny was so sacred the first day she has opted to stay at home and knit
So the process begins again

 

[BruceK]

But if you think that a spin out can't happen at much lower speeds, well, think again.
As I said, 40kts or so is already enough to require a fair bit of care when steering!

Mine has a big yellow warning sign not do go full lock at over 40knts, right there by the throttle levers, so I'm guessing 30 something is still OK

No we don't go full lock at high speed, it's not necessary. The boat is very nimble at speed with the wheel 1/3rd to half over will have the boat right over on it's side. Any more and I think she'll lose traction and the stern spin out.

 

[BruceK]

.........an trouble going like a bat outa hell Like BruceK'
'Oh, you have seen his vidoes then'?
'Yeh'
'Look, He aint well, take no notice'
.......

Half the lager has been drunk

Poor Roy, he's never going to keep up. One day I will work out the combination to his spare funbox and alleviate him of that problem.

 

[petem]

But if you think that a spin out can't happen at much lower speeds, well, think again.
As I said, 40kts or so is already enough to require a fair bit of care when steering!

That's interesting. I can't say that I've tried a full lock WOT turn but I've often wondered if it would hook (is that the phrase)?

I keep meaning to ask Nick B if he ever tried it when testing T34's. Not sure how fast he's going here (1:35 onwards)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCtk8vOUj0I

 

[Greg2]

I would never even consider a full lock turn at anything over displacement speeds, not out of concern over spinning out but more out of concern about causing damage due to over-stressing things. A mate did a hard lock turn at speed and trashed a drive - can’t remember exactly what happened but it involved the gear change cable being ripped out of the boat. Bit of an expensive shock.

 

[BruceK]

Greg This is how myths and rumours start. Next it will become internet lore that a hard turn at speed will rip your gearbox cable out.

 

[jrudge]

Full lock turns on a Williams whilst at the same time applying full power are always interesting

 

[Greg2]

Greg This is how myths and rumours start. Next it will become internet lore that a hard turn at speed will rip your gearbox cable out.

LOL

Well, it ripped his out!

To be honest we have a sports cruiser with more emphasis on the 'cruiser' element so I have no desire to crash test our fifteen year old outdrives!

 

[Portofino]

I used to do full lock full speed turns in the S/Skr Porto 35 , it healed over inside the bend and lost speed as it slowed the radius of the turn decreased ,you sort of circled inside the last outer circle as its speed dropped to near dropping off the plane still healed over .Say from 36 knots to 20 ( it’s healed remember so tons of drag ) within 3 circles by which time I’d terrified everyone on board and would open up the steering and let it ( throttles not touched ) accelerate back up in the chosen line / courses usually not the one i was on when I started .

 

[BruceK]

:encouragement:

What engine and drives btw.

 

[Portofino]

:encouragement:

What engine and drives btw.

KAD 300,s with the DPG

 

[Portofino]

Yep outdrives and “sports cruiser “ go hand in hand manoeuvrability wise .

This boat does not want to play at all in comparison.
Deep 23 degree deadrise and tiny rudders .
There’s quite bit of dynamic lift and stability at speed it just “sets “
@ 36 knots I,am lucky to get 5 degrees of course change if that .
Full rudder it just looses a few knots that’s all maybe drops to 32 or something?

To effect any meaningful course change ie a pot or collision avoidance I have to throttle down to around somewhere between 20-24 knots ,the slower the better .
As it slows it drops down more rudder dips in they become useful .

It hardly heals as well when it wakes up and decides to turn.

Flip side is it runs arrow straight when set up sufficiently offshore avoiding hazards and traffic between 27/30 knots with minimal steering input ,so as a mile eater it’s quite relaxing to drive .

It’s quite funny watching other helms new to the boat . After i leave port and set it up running @30 knots and invite them to have a go , like most red blooded males they can’t wait to have a go .

When they attempt to alter course , initially a slight nudge of the wheel with a motorway change mentality nothing , then a bit more , still nought , then “ there’s a boat dead ahead “ with a whiff of alarm in there voice ,
“ here take over please “ comes next .” I can’t make it turn “

At which point I mention and demonstrate throttling back to around 20/24 to make the collision avoidance turn .

Rudders work fine @ D speed btw .

 

[BruceK]

I can visualise this in stunning clarity

Kwakkers would have a field day with a raw recruit to the hobby on your boat. He's a bit like an Ent where nothing is worth saying unless you take a long time to say it. Can you imagine!!!