Oct PBO - BAVARIA 37, bit of a Slating???

Re: Not another Bav war!!

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect, but do not know, that the people aboard the three boats who motored slowly past me last Tuesday morning whilst we were enjoying a run, in a force 3, in sunshine, with a fair tide! might be in this category, and yes, all three were modern volume production boats. One wonders when, if ever, they actually tried sailing?


[/ QUOTE ]I confess that does amaze us too...... We sail ocassionally with a couple who put their engine on if the boat speed drops below 5kts.... they don't know what they are missing IMHO..... very little can compare to slipping along in the sun without a care in the world....
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

I agree, so far as the sea is concerned.

We sailed down the Wallet on the night of 1st/2nd September to see the start of the Colne Barge Match and did not see another boat at all until we got into Pyefleet!

Admittedly there was a gale forecast, but it was "later" (and indeed it did arrive some hours after we anchored).

Coming the other way on Sunday we saw three.

But the rivers and creeks are crowded.
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

There have always been a huge variety of used boats at a fraction of the cost of a new JenBenBav, that are probably far better boats to learn to sail in, so I think the oft quoted 'they've helped numerous people to get on the water' is completely spurious.

Unfortunately, the 'new to sailing' purchaser of a new AWB is not always made aware of the characteristics of what they are paying their £70k for.

I personally do not have a problem with AWB,s, they are excellent for certain types of maritime leisure. As has been said here before. Horses for courses - but the person trying to get on the water doesn't know what course he may end up taking!

A quick look down the pontoons of any Solent marina will show in a glance that diversity has certainly vanished as far as the boats are concerned.
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

I came back across the Channel a couple of weeks ago with a F5 on the beam in fair conditions. The yacht on my other beam kept his headsail rolled, unrolled a little mainsail........and motored for 70nm. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I have to agree with Mirelle that there are those who want to sail, and those who go through a phase of wanting a "yacht". I don't agree though (JMKENT) that there are families for whom the cheapest yacht that will meet their "needs" means an expenditure of >£150,000; I suspect there's a blurring here between "needs" and "lifestyle aspirations".
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

I think you are missing one point in "new to sailing". If I had shown SWMBO an MAB and suggested we took up sailing the answer would be an emphatic NO!

It was walking around boat shows dreaming that was it going to be a Bav/Jen/Ben/Dufour/Hanse/Elan that got us "new to sailing"!. Because the Dufour person treated us as potential buyers instead of time wasters (which at that time we almost were) and later an on the spur of the moment decision to buy was OK with SWMBO (having only looked at AWB's) and the choice of a Dufour made in complete ignorance of the various merits between the various AWB's.

Many years later we were kindly invited on board a well looked after Westerly Oceanlord and SWMBO stated I don't care what it sails like i could not live with the dark dingy interior.

For many buying a sailing boat is a joint decision and while the capabilities of sailing the southern ocean is a virtue if you go for a boat that can do that you may not even start to go sailing if SWMBO is not attracted to that boat!
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Yup, there are always these references to AWBs (yes, Bavs in particular) as being "cheap"; this is an absolutely ridiculous description, and one that is a great piece of propaganda for anyone who believes yachting to be the preserve of the wealthy- I don't know the figures, but I am sure the cheapest Bav you will ever find is a 10 year old 30, which is probably a lot of money to most of us, and as for new ones, well, you could buy a flat for the price of the smallest I am sure. The fact they are cheapER than other brands and "you get a lot for your money" are just so irrelevant to normal humans and almost patronising.

Again I restate that all the market is doing is moving to make it unfeasible (more so) so build small boats, and the magazines do a great job of supporting this development, even with condescending comments about how nice it is that such & such is building a "small boat" of less than 30!

Articles showing extreme daring and hinting at deficencies in some boats are likely just a flickering candle flame and the wind'll soon blow it back the other way.

BTW Mirelle, where on the Orwell is truly quiet? There are moorings the whole length, admittedly not to the Hamble's extent, but unless you're virtually flat bottomed and go towards the Orwell School shore opp Pinn Mill, there seems to be few escapes.

How gorgeous it is up here in Norway, where every man jack has a boat, but thankfully the population is minute and it seems deserted almost.

Jem (OK I've got loquacious fingers).
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

The yacht on my other beam kept his headsail rolled, unrolled a little mainsail........and motored for 70nm. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Perhaps he could have been like me - quite happy in either MoBo's or SailBo's but has a SailBo which also motors ok (in our case very well, as many modern yachts will even tho' not a motorsailer) so not fussed one way or the other.

So what is wrong with motoring a yacht if that is what one wants to do on some particular occasions? Sounds like another case of do what I do and everyone who doesn't is to be scoffed at.

I know many very experienced sailors who are quite happy to motor their yachts on occasions for as simple a reason as just don't want to be bothered with pulling ropes that day.

John
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Absolutely, it was his fuel bill! We all motor when it suits, to get there faster, more comfortably or whatever. I thought it just begged the question "why buy a sailing boat" if you're going to motor for 70nm in conditions which were pretty well the optimum for that boat and with that point of sail and that rig, the only string pulling would be to get the sails out in the first place. As you imply, each to his own.....
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Mirelle,

If I may, I'd like to pick you up on one point.

You mention diversity in a class/ethnicity context. It might also be worth considering the age issue.

I'll bet a majority of the members of this forum are at the (ahem) mature end of the spectrum. Equally, when I look at passing boats on the the Orwell, the majority of crews look like they'd probably remember Ena Sharples in Coronation Street....

Surely anything that encourages younger families afloat must be good for the long-term future of this hobby/passion of ours?. Otherwise sailing will degenerate into an activity for crusty old-timers, and the supporting industry and infrastructure will decline. If it's Bavaria that encourages this, then more power to their elbows.

It's a fact that there is more disposable income around today. At the age where families are now buying a BenJenBav "starter boat" , our affordable holiday conveyance was an elderly trailer-tent. Times and circumstances change.

See you on the water

John
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

John,

You make a fair point, but I am not sure that you are right.

I have not noticed the ages of my fellow messers-about in boats in our corner of East Anglia that much; this may well be because I am sailing with a wife and two boys of 11 and 4 aboard for most of the time, therefore we tend to notice other sailing families. Our children never seem to have any shortage of boys and girls of similar ages to meet and play with at weekends and during the annual family holiday. The children they meet come in all sorts of boats.

I bought my first little boat when I was 16 and went camping cruising in her; at that time all "yachts" were huge and owned by ancient people! I see a few young people doing this now, and I suspect the numbers are about the same as they were 37 years ago.

Our local club, the Deben Yacht Club, runs an RYA dinghy sailing training programme for children starting at age 10 and this is always massively over-subscribed, every year.

Andrew
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Fair enough - p'raps our end of the Orwell is Saga territory /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Maybe expectations of acceptable "holiday" conditions are changing? Have all-inclusive beach club holidays rendered cramped camping/small boat holidays unacceptable? The desire for comfort is now paramount? I dunno.

A possibly relevant digression - I'd assumed that back-packing around the world was de rigeur for young people/students these days. Our daughter has just got back from travelling around SE Asia. I overheard a conversation with 3 or 4 of her uni friends, who all said words to the effect of "Oooh, we couldn't do that - give us an organised hotel/beach type holiday any day"

Anyway, enough philosophising - time to start thinking about the winter maintenance list... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

John
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

John,

Haven't you still got last years list?.... I'll save loads of time writing out a list this year by using last years list..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

More seriously... there aren't that many youngesters in the Ipswich marinas..... guess that the prices aren't that compatible with young family running costs.... so I agree with John.... but there are many kids out there..... we find 'em wherever we go... or at least our kids do.... very rare for them not to discover someone to play with....
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

I try not to find last year's list. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Actually, I found it halfway through our summer cruise - there were 38 things on it and three had been crossed off! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I could not afford to keep my boat in a marina - certainly not anywhere on the Orwell. (On the other hand, the four hour pit stop at Haven Marina for a fiver is a tremendous bargain - showers all round, water, SWMBO off to Sainsburys and were were all set for another week!)

I suspect that most boat owners have always been fiftysomethings to seventysomethings - certainly they were all ancient when I was young!
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Mirelle, you must try my trick....

I write a long list with the many challenging, expensive or difficult jobs on it, then add in lots of 'non-jobs' to make it look like i've done loads.....

I can't afford to keep my boat in a marina on the Orwell either... but somehow or other we manage to find the money though.... usually through things like not buying each other birthday or Christmas presents and by not going out very often...

Tend to agree overall though... the average age of a boat owner is definitely somewhat north of 40 i'm sure.....
 
Re: Job Lists

Neil,

don't make my mistake of letting SWMBO write the list. (well, it kept her amused whilst we were anchored in the sunshine last weekend)

Current list -

Ruth's jobs - 2
John's jobs - 26

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Jobs left un-done...

One item that is never on the list, 'cos it's obvious, is "mouse all shackles and bottlescrews". Careful inspection of Mirelle will show that the port cap shroud is currently secured with a lashing, the body of the bottlescrew having chosen to hurl itself into the Wallet at around 0200 the weekend before last... I have to say that, the lashing having held up admirably during the blow that followed, it may last until laying up time.

Well, they do say that one of the benefits of gaff rig is that its easy to fix! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Re: Job Lists

Last year I had a list of 2

1. Sell boat
2. Buy other boat

100% success rate

This new list's got 15 items so far - to be completed by 29th Oct 2009
If I manage 4 or 5 this year I'm well on schedule.

One item"s a dead cert (keep on sailing this winter), 3 should be dealt with by the end of October (new VHF, new echosounder & batterycharger) and the last one by March (antifoul).

Looking forward to an active winter!
 
Re: Job Lists

Full Circle list currently at 64 again.
Just added new stern gland and add electric loo, so job list went up by 5 items.
1. Replace stern gland
2. Refurbish Electric loo, seals impeller etc
3. Install new electric circuits and switch
4. Install loo and holding tank.
5. Remodel boat workshop to fit holding tank.
 
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