Oct PBO - BAVARIA 37, bit of a Slating???

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David_Jersey

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A LOT of boat for £70k (or £60k ex VAT /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif), but my reading of the article was that the sailing / handling ability and IMO far more importantly the build quality were (politely) completely slated.

I guess the sailing performance / handling were unsurprising - it IS shaped like a Caravan! - but each to their own priorities, and I have no great problem with this - after all my boat is not exactly the fastest around! - although I think mine looks a million percent prettier!

However Comments like "Limber holes run through un-sealed, un-piped holes in the frames - a common feature, and one that makes me worried about the consequences of water entrapment and absorption" were IMO very alarming.

Worried??? I would be f#cking livid that they hadn't finished building the bl##dy boat!!

For next year, maybe they will save on an exterior Gel coat?? (Below the waterline only of course - out of sight, out of mind etc).

A few pages on in PBO and they have a s/h Victory 40 reviewed for similar money, I know which I would prefer..............

The degree of honesty was quite nice to read in PBO, I am guessing that their comments were "balanced" - newbies (most of the Bav market??) won't fully understand and others who can read between the lines will be warned off?? or maybe I am reading too much into the Review??
 
I have not seen the article, but an interesting aside is that there is a Bav 50 here in Marmaris that has had one of its aft fairleads torn off. Interesting point is that the teak toe rail capping only shows what appear to be screw holes, with no sign that bolts have been torn out (which would have done much more damage). Couple this with the report in one of the mags a few months ago that a new Bav 37 (or was it a 39) had failed a survey for charter work because one of the backstay bolts had missed the internal reinforcing plate, and I have to wonder if building down to a price has not gone too far. A pity because IMHO they could be very good boats for the money with a bit more attention to detail and quality control.
 
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I have to wonder if building down to a price has not gone too far

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A race to the bottom (pun intended!) - I guess only time will tell................
 
I did feel that that was one of the more direct reviews I have seen.
..but...

I have been slightly not impressed by the way the perspex hatch could be easily bent up away from the lock so you didnt need a key to enter on another older model (holiday 35) from the same company. I have had crew on my GK24 who probably would have stomped their way through such a hatch by accident...

And the mainsheet jammer was a long long way from the helm position if you stood by the wheel with the weather helm making it wind up into the wind because only two of the three reefing lines were usable because there werent enough rope clutches.

But the inside looked nice from the POV of a boat show punter and the outside looked nice too. And at the last Earls Court LBS they were nice enough to let me explore every one of their range, without getting sniffy when my six year old went through every locker space on each one as well.

I dont think they have produced my dream boat however.
 
Not another Bav war!!

Lets not start another Bav opinion war!

I always find PBO find plenty of things wrong with every new boat test they do, no matter what make or price.

I have personally sailed on a Bav for many miles and in varying conditions, and I can honestly say I wouldn't have a hesitation in buying one. Yes they are cheap, but you get a lot of boat for not a lot of money. I bet they have allowed a lot of people into sailing and generated a large revenue for the marine business as a whole.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but lets not get too carried away with them.

On another note, of the many that slate the Bavs, how many have actually sailed one? I suspect not many. At least PBO have sailed one, but there again, not to buy personally and haven't got a budget so cost doesn't seem to come into the equation. I don't think you can really compare one with a yacht of triple the value though, can you?
 
Re: Not another Bav war!!

Yup, I've sailed charter Bav's lots, and they've all been ok, I'm sure not the best and most robust saliing boats, but ok. I chartered a Sweden 390 once and the rudder cable broke, emergency tiller job. Never happended on a Bav.

Serioulsy tho, I think its just snobbery and paranoia over 2nd hand boat values.
 
If they missed out the gel coat, you couldnt get osmosis. There are arguments that this is a sensible way to go. Certainly some Navy grp boats are built without gel and painted instead.

I dont understand all the arguments about Bavs. You have a choice - for the 70k you can get either a new Bav of lower quality or a tired used boat of higher quality. If you want a higher quality new boat then you have to cough up 200k for a Malo or similar. Many people on lower budgets find that a new Bav is preferable to SWMBO, who doesnt want a smelly dirty well used old boat

Rule of life - you only get what you pay for, and many people cant afford / justify a high quality new boat.
 
Wasn't a troll (honest!), not so much a comment on Bavs, more a comment about the PBO Review itself and whether folk thought it was fair / balanced.

As I said in my OP, I CAN see why folk would buy something like a Bavaria, and I do not have any fundamental problem with folk doing so - different boats for different folks and their circumstances.

I CAN also see why they attract new owners, apart from the size and "bang for the b#ck" it is the buying something new / not buying someone else's problems.

Around 5 years ago I wanted some two wheeled transport for the commute and knew b#gger all about mopeds / scooters, except that the worst thing about small bikes is the previous owner running them on a shoestring. So I decided to buy new, just cos it was easier and I could afford to.

I walked into a showroom and 10 minutes later had a brand new Scooter in excahnge for approx £2k. My selection was based on nothing more than it was the only model that made me laugh. (Only later did I find out Jamie Oliver had the same model /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

The upside? for a 125 it has plenty of poke up to around 70mph (40mph speed limit here /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif) It is still going and starting 1st time 5 years later, probably has another 5 years in it (maybe more), costs me £140 a year to insure, parking is free, serviced about twice (£200?) and petrol costs of around £5 a month. I make cost of ownership around £600 a year. Another 5 years will see this average drop markedly.

The downside? It is Italian, even the plastic Chrome is peeling, let alone the "real" chrome /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. It has been weeping oil for the last couple of years. and I should have bought something that I could stow the crash helmet under the seat (I had to buy a top box instead). But the most important downside is due to the very wide handlebars (and small roads in Jersey) it makes squeezing through the traffic difficult.

To sum up therefore, I got exactly what I wanted, very easily BUT I just didn't know everything that I needed to want. It is not bad enough to sell, just a bit of a pain now and again - and not worth selling and buying something else again. It does the job...........like a Bav??? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Deservedly so.
Most cheap production boats are rubbish in my opinion. I've sailed quite a few of them and owned one and they don't come near to my current 30 year old in terms of sailing ability and sense of safeness in a blow.

I think the magazines should be more critical of the poor stability figures and workmanship that is found, and not sing the praises quite so much of the tardis heads.
 
sigh.....

For someone who wants a weekend getaway, with comfort and space, and doesn't want to cross an ocean, a 30yr old is rubbish...

Horses for courses....?

Edit: Pete, notice you have a Co32..... would be far from ideal as a family weekend retreat compared to say a Bav37........ might sail better, might be safer in a blow, but try having 10 guests comfortably onboard....

PS... I too have a 30yrd old heavyweight, so i'm not defending my own choice here....
 
The idea that you might prevent osmosis by leaving off the gel-coat is nonsense and I wish people like you would stop making stupid statements like this.
Osmosis is not a "disease" it is the natural and expected diffusion of liquids through a porous membrane. ALL GRP boats are pourus to some extent and take up water through osmosis. SOME suffer blistering and damage to the structural layup due to the presence of water. Others don't and very often the cause is poor quality layup in the first place. In every case the gel-coat, being unreinforced resin provides some barrier, however imperfect, to water penetration. To leave it off would be stupid unless like the minehunters you mention, the layup was extremely heavy and heavily epoxy coated afterwards. Your contention that "osmosis" is in some way caused by the gel-coat is rubbish.
 
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Deservedly so.
Most cheap production boats are rubbish in my opinion.

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So why did you buy a cheaply made, mass produced 1970's production yacht with well known list of construction deficiencies?
 
Re: Bit of a Slating?

I did not read the review the same way. Having striped away the predictable D Harding generic spiteful comments about Bavaria and AWBs, I found a few remaining objective comments which were, on balance, positive about the Bav 37.

His review does imply that the slimmer hull of the Bavaria 36 actually had quite good sailing handling characteristics. He admits the locker doors are solid wood and perhaps a mastic gun man has lost his job at Bavaria.

He criticizes the holes in the floor grid for potentially letting in moisture, whereas I know these actually promote a drying air draft.

He criticizes the large volume hull but this is a debate that yacht designers and buyers have been having for the last 15 years. There have been far worse examples in that time period.

Then there is the shock news about the plastic laminate cabin sole boards, err you mean just like those seen on most new yachts for sale under £120k Mr Harding?

Finally he heads out for a sea trial knowing that too much sail is set for the gusting over 30 knots conditions and then claims the design tiring to handle. He also criticizes the high gearing of the helm whereas many would consider this a positive that puts the helmsman in closer contact with the rudder.
 
A limber hole is a hole in a bulkhead, at the lowest level, allowing water to drain through the bilge to the deepest point where the bilge pump should be fitted.
 
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I guess the sailing performance / handling were unsurprising - it IS shaped like a Caravan! - but each to their own priorities, and I have no great problem with this - after all my boat is not exactly the fastest around! - although I think mine looks a million percent prettier!

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I don't own a Bavaria, never have owned a Bavaria nor do I covet a Bavaria but biased rubbish doesn't help any constructive debate.

I've been around long enough to remember back when the Seadog was the 'new' boat on the block, the comments were very similar to those you now make about the Bavaria and with the greatest respect If I owned a boat that sailed like a dog, sea or otherwise, I wouldn't throw stones at any boat. The best thing about the Seadog was the big engine for the time, I suspect nothing much has changed. Triple keels and a low profile ketch rig = max drag, minimum sail push, maximum motor use, indeed a floating caravan, just a bit smaller and less comfy than a modern one and whilst the modern one may not be perfect I suspect it nevertheless outsails yours.
 
That's a bit of a harsh thing to say about the poor old Seadog. She was a heavy displacement vessel that was built up to a price. In fact, according to my 1973 Bristows, you could have bought a 37ft Hillyard 12 tonner for the same price.

The Bav, on the other hand, is definitely built down to a price - which I think is the main thrust of the post.

I've got no idea how well or badly the Seadog sailed - maybe David could enlighten us?
 
I also thought the main point of the post was not to bash the BAvaria design or materials but to point out the disappointing poor finish. Perhaps the owner had'nt been thourough enough on his boat acceptance checks.
 
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