Ocean Cruising Club member’s yacht types

doug748 said:
Indeed.


I like the eccentrics best. Here is a selection from a blogger:

http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2011/04/las-palmas-2/

Wylo II was anchored near me this summer, grand to see
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Yes, if you had a list originating from down under you might see a predominance of Ferro and steel yachts, often home built. If you had one from readers of Country Life it might well feature a lot of big Oysters and the like. French list would have lots of Amels and home made aluminium and steel yachts.
 
Tranona said:
As would looking at the entry list for the ARC, for example. The OCC is a rather UK centric organisation, so the choice of boats of members is not surprising. However, people who sail the oceans coming from other "traditions" may make different choices.

So, this list is no more representative of the overall ocean cruising community than any other list derived from a small self selecting sample.
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I beg to differ. As an OCC member the club has many American members as well as many European members. The club is over 2000 members strong. I was only looking at the members handbook last week and what is very evident is that there are very few Bavs, Bens, Jens, etc. They do exist but generally the larger versions in the 50+ ft range. There are many different types of yacht but members generally favour the more conservative designs. Certainly the reason why we dont have a modern AWB wasnt financial. It was a desire not to have a modern off the peg design that wasnt particulary suited to ocean sailing.
When you are sailing short handed for many days at a time, comfortable passages are more important than the ability to surf down waves. Most modern AWBs with their flat hull sections in the stern and forward of the keel are great weekend criusers but for me they are the last thing I want in an ocean sailing yacht. When you are the off watch crew trying to get some sleep and the boat is surfing it can be quite unpleasant. Simple sail controls with little to go wrong, cockpit layouts that work for the single hander ( as a coupe we sail single handed in shifts) where winches and mainsheets are easily used from the wheel position, comfortable berths for passage making, a galley that can be used at sea with deep fiddles, numerous handhold down below so you can move around safely at sea. All these attributes together are rarely found in modern AWBs but I suspect are plentiful in the majority of conservative ocean sailing yachts within the OCC.
I believe that modern yachts are now built for a different market where the interior design is far more important to the customer that it was 20 years ago. Modern interiors favour a more open plan design with an eye on entertaining and impressing guest rather than its functionality at sea crossing an ocean. I have been on modern yachts without a handhold in sight, where galleys are part of the saloon and there is no restraints to allow you to cook at sea. I have seen complex mainsheet systems on coachroofs several feet from the helmsman and also genoa winches the wrong side of huge wheels that divide the cockpit.
None of these attributes appeal to me so we sail a yacht from the past as many choose to do in the OCC.
 
The only OCC member I have had much to do with is ex-merchant navy and has done some ocean sailing, but currently has a Nic 32. Although he has taken it to Helsinki, his ocean days are behind him, though I hope he doesn't read this.
 
geem said:
I beg to differ. As an OCC member the club has many American members as well as many European members. The club is over 2000 members strong. I was only looking at the members handbook last week and what is very evident is that there are very few Bavs, Bens, Jens, etc. They do exist but generally the larger versions in the 50+ ft range. There are many different types of yacht but members generally favour the more conservative designs. Certainly the reason why we dont have a modern AWB wasnt financial. It was a desire not to have a modern off the peg design that wasnt particulary suited to ocean sailing.
When you are sailing short handed for many days at a time, comfortable passages are more important than the ability to surf down waves. Most modern AWBs with their flat hull sections in the stern and forward of the keel are great weekend criusers but for me they are the last thing I want in an ocean sailing yacht. When you are the off watch crew trying to get some sleep and the boat is surfing it can be quite unpleasant. Simple sail controls with little to go wrong, cockpit layouts that work for the single hander ( as a coupe we sail single handed in shifts) where winches and mainsheets are easily used from the wheel position, comfortable berths for passage making, a galley that can be used at sea with deep fiddles, numerous handhold down below so you can move around safely at sea. All these attributes together are rarely found in modern AWBs but I suspect are plentiful in the majority of conservative ocean sailing yachts within the OCC.
I believe that modern yachts are now built for a different market where the interior design is far more important to the customer that it was 20 years ago. Modern interiors favour a more open plan design with an eye on entertaining and impressing guest rather than its functionality at sea crossing an ocean. I have been on modern yachts without a handhold in sight, where galleys are part of the saloon and there is no restraints to allow you to cook at sea. I have seen complex mainsheet systems on coachroofs several feet from the helmsman and also genoa winches the wrong side of huge wheels that divide the cockpit.
None of these attributes appeal to me so we sail a yacht from the past as many choose to do in the OCC.
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The 2000 members of that club (wherever they come from) only represent a small proportion of those who go "ocean cruising" and their choice of boats reflects their philosophy. The reality is that the style of boat that dominates that list is no longer made in any quantity so the many new entrants to that activity may choose a different style, as observation of the ARC entry list suggests - it is dominated now by what you call AWBs.

Not everybody wants to cruise short handed in a heavy old boat, and although you are correct in saying that they are designed differently, it does not seem to stop people from using them for ocean cruising. Only recently one of the examples in a magazine article was a couple who bought a stock Hanse 385 from the UK dealer, and sailed it almost trouble free to Australia and sold it there. Another current series of articles on the same subject currently running in pBO describes a number of folks who have circumnavigated in modern production boats, including a German couple now in their 11th year in a standard Bavaria. Indeed the Bavaria help forum has at least two Australian members who have bought their boats in the Med, cruised there and sailed back home.

So there is a huge variety of boats used for ocean cruising and the point that was making is that your "list" would depend on the sample you took - this ample was very different from the recent US survey attempting to establish the 10 "best".

The telling point in your observation is the reference to what suits you, and one can't argue with that. Just recognise that what suits you does not necessarily suit everybody, and owners of other types of boats will be equally enthusiastic (and defensive!) about their choice.
 
Tranona said:
The 2000 members of that club (wherever they come from) only represent a small proportion of those who go "ocean cruising" and their choice of boats reflects their philosophy. The reality is that the style of boat that dominates that list is no longer made in any quantity so the many new entrants to that activity may choose a different style, as observation of the ARC entry list suggests - it is dominated now by what you call AWBs.

Not everybody wants to cruise short handed in a heavy old boat, and although you are correct in saying that they are designed differently, it does not seem to stop people from using them for ocean cruising. Only recently one of the examples in a magazine article was a couple who bought a stock Hanse 385 from the UK dealer, and sailed it almost trouble free to Australia and sold it there. Another current series of articles on the same subject currently running in pBO describes a number of folks who have circumnavigated in modern production boats, including a German couple now in their 11th year in a standard Bavaria. Indeed the Bavaria help forum has at least two Australian members who have bought their boats in the Med, cruised there and sailed back home.

So there is a huge variety of boats used for ocean cruising and the point that was making is that your "list" would depend on the sample you took - this ample was very different from the recent US survey attempting to establish the 10 "best".

The telling point in your observation is the reference to what suits you, and one can't argue with that. Just recognise that what suits you does not necessarily suit everybody, and owners of other types of boats will be equally enthusiastic (and defensive!) about their choice.
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There is no defensive in my explanation. I tried to explain to you the reason why many OCC boats are what they are. Taking on crew for an Atlantic crossing is probably essential on some AWBs as they would be a handful with only two onboard. Not having to take crew is a pleasure to many people.
I havent quoted any list. I have only said that the OCC members boats at some 2000 show very few Jens, Bavs, Bens etc. To qualify for OCC membership you need to have completed a none stop 1000 mile sail. The fact is very few members from both sides of the Atlantic chose to do so on a AWB. Since the offers from these modern manufactures are relatively cheap these days it cant be a financial reason why few in the OCC choose to sail them.
 
>There is no defensive in my explanation. I tried to explain to you the reason why many OCC boats are what they are. Taking on crew for an Atlantic crossing is probably essential on some AWBs as they would be a handful with only two onboard. Not having to take crew is a pleasure to many people.
I havent quoted any list. I have only said that the OCC members boats at some 2000 show very few Jens, Bavs, Bens etc. To qualify for OCC membership you need to have completed a none stop 1000 mile sail. The fact is very few members from both sides of the Atlantic chose to do so on a AWB. Since the offers from these modern manufactures are relatively cheap these days it cant be a financial reason why few in the OCC choose to sail them.

Agree.
 
Agree too.

I have owned 3 AWB's and 3 of the "other type"

For long term cruising I have come to prefer skeg or part hung skeg rudders, encapsulated or heavily constructed keel to hull joins, shaft driven props and solid wood interiors. But that's just me. OCC and RCC.
 
jonic said:
Agree too.

I have owned 3 AWB's and 3 of the "other type"

For long term cruising I have come to prefer skeg or part hung skeg rudders, encapsulated or heavily constructed keel to hull joins, shaft driven props and solid wood interiors. But that's just me. OCC and RCC.
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I agree. We have the same preferences. We didn't end up with this specification by accident.
 
geem said:
There is no defensive in my explanation. I tried to explain to you the reason why many OCC boats are what they are. Taking on crew for an Atlantic crossing is probably essential on some AWBs as they would be a handful with only two onboard. Not having to take crew is a pleasure to many people.
I havent quoted any list. I have only said that the OCC members boats at some 2000 show very few Jens, Bavs, Bens etc. To qualify for OCC membership you need to have completed a none stop 1000 mile sail. The fact is very few members from both sides of the Atlantic chose to do so on a AWB. Since the offers from these modern manufactures are relatively cheap these days it cant be a financial reason why few in the OCC choose to sail them.
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The list that started this thread is of boats most of which have not been made for more than 20 years. If ocean cruising was only possible in that sort of boat, the number of people who are able to do it would be very limited. It is not about about what you (or I) or the members of a small club choose, but all the others who make a different choice from you.

Times have moved on since the 1960's and of course there is an attraction to old style boats for a relatively small number of people, but ocean cruising is a far more eclectic activity than just short handed semi permanent liveaboard. So inevitably the choice of boats is far more eclectic than that list - if only because there are not enough to go around for everybody to have one, nor indeed want one.

The constant suggestion that only your criteria for choice of boat is valid is just not supported by the evidence. Anybody embarking on ocean cruising is likely to be quite capable of making up their own mind what is suitable for them to do the job, and it is clear that many arrive at a different conclusion from you (or members of the OCC).
 
geem said:
There is no defensive in my explanation. I tried to explain to you the reason why many OCC boats are what they are. Taking on crew for an Atlantic crossing is probably essential on some AWBs as they would be a handful with only two onboard. Not having to take crew is a pleasure to many people.
........
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Just so, almost everyone sees the point. In their more lucid moments even those who pretend not to.
 
I don't believe that the modern cruiser or even cruiser / racer is a handful therefore needs additional crew. It is a fact that modern sailing yachts, rigged for cruising, are nearly universally set up for ease of sail handling and have powerful, responsive auto-helms. Further, being beamy with high freeboard they will actually heal less than their older brethren.

At the end of the day, sailing boats have evolved and continue to evolve (who would have thought that hydrofoil cruising catamarans would be available to the market). Often it is said that they are built to impress for the marina hopping market but that is likely only part of the story. They have actually evolved to be far more efficient at what they do under sail compared to the likes of my Rival 41C and similar classes.
 
Tranona said:
The constant suggestion that only your criteria for choice of boat is valid is just not supported by the evidence.
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Who has been suggesting the only those criteria are valid?



Anybody embarking on ocean cruising is likely to be quite capable of making up their own mind what is suitable for them to do the job.
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Rubbish. :)
They might think they know but 5 plus years down the line fixing broken bits of a boat in various dusty anchorages around the world can hone your ideas of what works and what doesn't. ;)
 
I guess our 35' heavy displacement long-keeler fits (at the smaller end) into the OCC norm and we are members. However, I know several members with boats smaller - a couple substantially so - than our own; similarly I know several members who sail AWBs and a couple that cross oceans in what I see as flighty, scarily-lightweight race-based yachts and all seem happy enough with their choices.
To paraphrase Lance Armstrong: 'It's not about the boat'. Crews not yachts cross oceans and a competent crew could comfortably cross an ocean in most things, conversely, an incompetent one will struggle and suffer in even the best of boats.
 
Tranona said:
The list that started this thread is of boats most of which have not been made for more than 20 years. If ocean cruising was only possible in that sort of boat, the number of people who are able to do it would be very limited. It is not about about what you (or I) or the members of a small club choose, but all the others who make a different choice from you.
I have not suggested that ocean cruising is only viable in 20 year old boats. I have tried to explain to you that the vast majority of OCC members choose classic designs not out of cost or nostalgia but because they find them more suitable for ocean sailing.

Times have moved on since the 1960's and of course there is an attraction to old style boats for a relatively small number of people, but ocean cruising is a far more eclectic activity than just short handed semi permanent liveaboard. So inevitably the choice of boats is far more eclectic than that list - if only because there are not enough to go around for everybody to have one, nor indeed want one.
The list wasnt mine although it was a good example of OCC boats. I guess if you are not sailing oceans you are happy in you modern lightweight boat and that it the point of the thread. Most OCC members choose not to sail what you do

The constant suggestion that only your criteria for choice of boat is valid is just not supported by the evidence. Anybody embarking on ocean cruising is likely to be quite capable of making up their own mind what is suitable for them to do the job, and it is clear that many arrive at a different conclusion from you (or members of the OCC).
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jonic said:
....and look what Bob did with his.

http://www.bobshepton.co.uk/

I have been privileged to be at his lectures and proud to be in the same small (for a reason) club(s) as him.
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Ours carried us through many a Channel gale, upwind and down and many thousands of miles over our 13 years ownership, albeit none trans ocean for which I prefer a 747 or similar with drinks service
 
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