Obsolete RYA VHF Handbook

[zoidberg]

I discovered that all the RYA VHF Handbooks in my local Force 4 store are obsolete, having been superseded by a revised and reprinted new edition more than 15 months ago.

This contains many changes and amendments - I counted more than 30 - many of them significant to safety. Other stores have the same 'misleading' material still on their shelves.

 

[prv]

Doesn't surprise me. Books and charts are a slow-moving item at Force 4 and similar places, so I would always pull out my phone and check whether there's a newer edition before buying.

Pete

 

[Momac]

superseded by a revised and reprinted new edition more than 15 months ago.

This contains many changes and amendments - I counted more than 30 - many of them significant to safety. Other stores have the same 'misleading' material still on their shelves.

Of the 30 which would you pick as the top three significant to safety?

I am guessing the channel for calling UK coastguard is top of the list?

 

[NormanS]

Of the 30 which would you pick as the top three significant to safety?

I am guessing the channel for calling UK coastguard is top of the list?

When did it change? It may have changed in Lake Solent, but as far as I know it's still Channel 16 in the rest of the World.

 

[Momac]

When did it change? It may have changed in Lake Solent, but as far as I know it's still Channel 16 in the rest of the World.

http://completeguide.rnli.org/vhf-radios.html

 

[Momac]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....el-numbers-to-contact-uk-coastguard-47232/amp

 

[Robert Wilson]

http://completeguide.rnli.org/vhf-radios.html

I've just read that link, thank you.
I agree it promotes DSC calling for emergencies and ship-to-ship where both have a DSC set and MMSI numbers are known, but an "old fashioned" CH16 conversation can still be had between ship/coastguard, ship/marina, ship/port office, ship/ship - and vice versa. AFAIK

 

[prv]

http://completeguide.rnli.org/vhf-radios.html

That's pretty misleading, if not factually inaccurate.

It reflects what was planned to happen with the introduction of DSC over a decade ago, but in practice DSC never got the uptake the radio authorities hoped for. I believe it's correct that ships are no longer required by the GMDSS to keep a ch16 listening watch, but in reality they all still do. It wouldn't surprise me if something else required it even if the basic radio regulations themselves don't. Similarly, I'm pretty sure that the Coastguard still maintain the same ch16 watch they always did - any changes are more to do with their own reorganisation than the change in GMDSS rules a few years previously.

Pete

 

[prv]

When did it change? It may have changed in Lake Solent, but as far as I know it's still Channel 16 in the rest of the World.

It's Ch16 in the Solent too. If anything it changed *back* with the introduction of Fareham Coastguard, who seem to have abandoned the old Solent's local arrangement of initial routine calls on 67.

(They still use 67 as a working channel, but only after being directed there from 16)

Pete

 

[Bilgediver]

Most of the recent changes have nothing to do with emergency communications but relate to the old public service channels being split into simplex channels for other digital/data services
Gmdss was adapted wide world prior to 2000 though the yacyties took a little longer and has not significantly changed and that website referring to the RNLI etc is using words that date back to 1999. and has errors elsewhere
Any member of the crew can use the ships radio under supervision of a licensed operator.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Any member of the crew can use the ships radio under supervision of a licensed operator.

And in an emergency if the licence holder is incapacitated.
I have a sheet beside the VHF giving operating instructions in case of just such an emergency - but to an untrained/unfamiliar "guest" operator it would be a nerve-wracking experience, especially if very short-handed.

I have to guiltily admit, my pre-sail pep-talk is basic and does not go as far as VHF set operation. :culpability:

 

[[70521]]

I discovered that all the RYA VHF Handbooks in my local Force 4 store are obsolete, having been superseded by a revised and reprinted new edition more than 15 months ago.

This contains many changes and amendments - I counted more than 30 - many of them significant to safety. Other stores have the same 'misleading' material still on their shelves.

Did you point that out to the shopkeeper? Did they removed the "out of date" printed material from the shelf?

 

[prv]

I have to guiltily admit, my pre-sail pep-talk is basic and does not go as far as VHF set operation. :culpability:

My "if I fall overboard" brief includes showing people the DSC button on the back of the VHF handset in the cockpit, and the press-to-talk button.

Pete

 

[Robert Wilson]

Spot on, I 'll remember that in future, Thanks.

I'll tell the puppy that tomorrow when we go round to Ullapool to have Khamsin hauled-out for winter

Sad day

 

[Momac]

That's pretty misleading, if not factually inaccurate.

It reflects what was planned to happen with the introduction of DSC over a decade ago, but in practice DSC never got the uptake the radio authorities hoped for. I believe it's correct that ships are no longer required by the GMDSS to keep a ch16 listening watch, but in reality they all still do. It wouldn't surprise me if something else required it even if the basic radio regulations themselves don't. Similarly, I'm pretty sure that the Coastguard still maintain the same ch16 watch they always did - any changes are more to do with their own reorganisation than the change in GMDSS rules a few years previously.

Pete

You can never trust what you read on the internet !

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I get them to practice a voice mayday and a DSC distress, did it this morning with my keen but green Day Skipper crew. With particular reference to me MOBing or knocked unconscious.
I would also be interested to hear Zoidberg's ' 3 most dangerous' things which have been changed.. come on spill the beans Z. We all want to benefit from your experience as well as your wit..

My only beef is publications, eg almanacs, which order my crew to read out the boat's MMSI when calling a Mayday by voice not DSC. The MMSI can only possibly be of interest if it's to confirm identity following a DSC distress. Otherwise it's a waste of precious time.

 

[[70521]]

The MMSI can only possibly be of interest if it's to confirm identity following a DSC distress. Otherwise it's a waste of precious time.

Sounds a pretty good use of time to me. A cross reference to DSC message, "Huston, we have a problem" Houston know exactly where you are and that you are still able to talk to them that gives them a whole bunch of information that a voice or data mayday call on their one can't.

 

[zoidberg]

Hands up all those who DON'T have a 'Certificate Of Competence and a License To Operate', who have radio equipment installed /fitted on their boat which is NOT in their Ship Radio Licence, who don't HAVE a Ships Radio Licence, and who wouldn't know an OfCom if it bit them.....?

Don't tell me they don't exist. I know at least three of 'em.....

 

[prv]

Sounds a pretty good use of time to me. A cross reference to DSC message

The point was if a DSC message hasn't been sent. Agree if it has, there's some value in giving the MMSI to tie the voice and DSC calls together.

Someone - and I think it may have been my SRC instructor - did tell me that the MMSI was optional if a distress call was being sent by voice only. That makes sense, although presumably it would only arise if sending from a non-DSC handheld - if you're using a (probably fixed) radio with DSC then why would you not press the button, and if you're on some grungy Westerly with an old tin-box VHF then you don't have an MMSI anyway.

Pete

 

[prv]

I get them to practice a voice mayday and a DSC distress

Seems rather excessive as part of a pre-departure briefing

(Presumably you're doing something a little more in depth than that.)

I show people the DSC button because it's hidden round the back, and the PTT because someone not used to radios might not know about it, but I don't try to teach non-sailors how to make a formal distress call. Press the red button, follow the instructions on the screen (which will tell them to press again and hold it) and then when the nice man from the Coastguard calls to ask what's wrong, tell them the skipper's fallen overboard.

With only complete newbies on board it's unlikely we'll have left the Solent, so at that point it's more or less optional whether they're able to get the boat back to me - a couple of hundred people will have overheard that conversation on ch16. Admittedly 95% of them won't know how to read the distress position out of their radio's DSC log, but hopefully the Coastguard will rebroadcast the Mayday with a verbal position - and they've finally started giving a description most of the time as well now, rather than just reading out a string of numbers that's meaningless to anyone not sitting in front of a chart with a pencil in hand.

Pete