NYC Pilotage / Hudson tide rates of flow & chartlets

nickrj

nickrj

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Hey all,

I'm sitting in English Harbour, Antigua, making preparations for my trip up to New York - I'm looking at leaving this weekend... Apart from the weather, maybe the mangroves, and possibly the funny accents, I really do feel like I've accidently sailed back to the UK. Maybe my nav was off?

Anyway, I was hoping there might be some people on the board that might have local knowledge of sailing into Manhattan, however I'm aware it's UK centric so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I have the NOAA charts and the east coast pilot #3, however I'm too short on cash to go buying almanacs and cruising guides for the area. Is anyone able to assist with any pilotage tips, and especially Hudson river tidal speeds, and corresponding chartlets to show rates of flow and direction, based hours before/after high water? I have the tide times from an online calculator, but it would be cool to get some visual representation (like those helpful little charts in the Reeds almanac for Europe).

Any other info would be fantastic!

Nick
 
Hi, You could go to cruisersnet, a US network site. I am sure you will get any and all the information you need. Calm seas and fair winds. Peter
 
When entering New York from the south we always stop first at Atlantic Highlands NJ. Go inside Sandy Hook, turn to port and go three miles south. It has a large well-sheltered harbour with room to anchor in good holding. Shore facilities include marina with showers, supermarket, post office, West Marine chandlery within walking distance, etc. Hudson River tidal streams rarely exceed two knots, usually much less. You do need a chart showing depths because the channel has rock edges in some places where depths can go from 30 feet to 3 feet abruptly. How far up are you planning to go? If you're going into the canals, then unstep your mast at Castleton-on-Hudson where the local powerboat club (!) offers a splendid hand-operated crane at minimal charge--used to be 25 dollars. The shortest/quickest route into the Great Lakes is via Erie Canal and Oswego Canal into Lake Ontario. Then you can come and see us in Toronto where I'm grounded for health reasons (my wife's). Or, if Quebec suits you better, go north through Lake Champlain and into the St Lawrence River, then downstream to Quebec City where this year they're celebrating the 400th anniversary of the city's founding.
 
Thank you Abaker - Appreciate the anchorage tip, because I think what I'll do is aim to anchor in Sandy Hook when I arrive, sort out clearance, and then go onto 79th basin boat yard. North Cove Marina want $156USD for my little boat - For one night!

Plan after Manhattan is to go to Greenport on Long Island for the summer, work on my boat and then figure out how to get it over to the Pacific...

For future reference in case others are searching for this info, I have pasted below tidal rates:

High Water at The Battery

Ambrose Channel 0.5 - 1.2 knts into harbour
Narrows 1.5 into harbour
Harbour 1.2 - 1.6 into harbour
Hudson 1.6 - 1.9 upriver
Hell Gate (East River) 3.3 landward

+ 1 hr After HW

Ambrose Channel 0.4 - 0.6 West to East across outer channel
Narrows 0.5 into harbour
Harbour 0.6 into harbour
Hudson 1 - 1.8 up river
Hell Gate (East River) 2.0 landward

+2 After HW

Ambrose Channel 1.6 NW to SE
Narrows 0.7 seaward
Harbour 0.5 seaward
Hudson 0.7 - 1.1 upriver
Hell Gate (East River) 1.8 seaward

+3 After HW

Ambrose Channel 2.5 NW to SE
Narrows 1.6 seaward
Harbour 1.0 - 1.5 seaward
Hudson slack
Hell Gate (East River) 4.0 seaward

+4 After HW

Ambrose Channel 3.0 NW - SE
Narrows 2.2 seaward
Harbour 2.1 seaward
Hudson 1.4 seaward
Hell Gate (East River) 4.8 seaward

+5 After HW

Ambrose Channel 2.6 seaward
Narrows 2.4 seaward
Harbour 2.5 seaward
Hudson 2.2 seaward
Hell Gate (East River) 5.0 seaward

Low Water at Battery

Ambrose Channel 1.3 - 2.1 NW - SE
Narrows 1.8 seaward
Harbour 1.6 - 2.6 seaward
Hudson 2.8 seaward
Hell Gate (E River) 4.2 seaward

+1 After LW

Ambrose Channel slack
Narrows 1.0 seaward
Harbour 1.9 seaward
Hudson 2.6 seaward
Hell Gate (East River) 2.7 seaward

+2 After LW

Ambrose Channel 1.3 SE - NW
Narrows slack
Harbour 0.8 seaward
Hudson 1.9 seaward
Hell Gate (East River) 1.3 landward

+3 After LW

Ambrose Channel 2.0 SE - NW
Narrows 1.1 landward
Harbour 0.7 landward
Hudson 1.0 seaward
Hell Gate (East River) 3.1 landward

+4 After LW

Ambrose Channel 2.0 SW - NW
Narrows 1.9 landward
Harbour 1.3 landward
Hudson 0.3 upriver
Hell Gate (East River) 3.7 landward

+5 After LW

Ambrose Channel 1.4 SW - NW
Narrows 2.1 landward
Harbour 1.6 - 1.9 landward
Hudson 1.3 upriver
Hell Gate (East River) 3.8 landward
 
Nickrj, when I've entered New York harbour from any direction I had already cleared into the US elsewhere, e.g. Oswego NY or Fort Lauderdale FL, so I have no firsthand information about clearing in at New York. I just looked at Jimmy Cornell's site, which seems to have the info you need: www.noonsite.com/Countries/USA
Then look at Formalities/Clearance and click on US government site, then look at Pleasure Boat Requirements by Location, New York/Newark.
Evidently the likeliest possibilities would be Elizabeth NJ, which is not on the water but has an airport I believe, or the 79th St Boat Basin.
You may need a visa. Holding a Canadian passport (as well as a UK one) I don't need a visa so can't advise on that. My recollection is that all foreign-flagged boats, including mine with Canadian registration, need to get a cruising permit, and report in at each different customs district.
 
Hi Nick
What a pity I did not hear of your question earlier - I have just sailed down from Canada on your proposed route (but going via ICW) and left my boat in Antigua! There I have all the charts etc but no longer needed. Unfortunately I am now in UK.
I recommend an alternative for New York which is better sheltered than Sandy Hook, not so far off your route and closer to Manhattan which no doubt you would wish to visit.
The alternative is Great Kills Harbour which is on SW corner of Staten Island, there you can anchor (for no cost) in one corner inside moorings and go ashore to local state park. From there you can take local bus transport (have $s in change for paying) to the free Staten Island ferry to NY itself.
Or in Great Kills Hbr you can take aGreat Kills YC mooring (good cost for a week) and use their facilities.
In Manhattan you could use one of the 79th Street Municipal moorings (again very good rates for a week), go ashore and leave your dinghy with acceptable security. That would probably be the right place to go to clear in. Basically you phone a free phone number and follow the (laborious) instructions. Then you will have to visit the customs and immigration. These people are remarkably ignorant about their own rules and you may get told a load of cobblers. Use a public phone not a cell phone as it may take a long time! You MUST have a VISA (NO doubt about that!)or else you will definitely not be allowed in!
You will need Richardsons chartbook for the 'Hudson River and Adjacent Waterways' which will get you to Oswego. The first part of the river is straight forward (big ships go up to Albany - beware!) but there are a few quirky narrow bits where a chart is advisable altho buoyage is good.
Hudson is of course tidal with may be up to 1 knot ebb and flood.
You will experience this current from making your landfall and proceeding to the Verazzano Narrows bridge. Ebb seems to last longer than flood. I had no flow tables but worked it out from one sequence of tides! I can only do 5kts on engine and had no problem whatever the tide - it just got slower or faster!
I also highly recommend Skipper Bob guides which are cheap (about $18) and give info on the few anchorages on the Hudson. The best anchorage is at Havenstraw Bay at about 41 deg 11' north.
Castleton Boat Club has very cheap moorings and you pay $50 for use of crane for self help taking mast down. They have some old timber around for supports. Members are extremely helpful and quite likely will drive you for shops, timber stores etc. There is nothing in Castleton apart from a small convenience store.
There is a good website to Google for NY waterways which for the lst couple of years have been free - to encourage visitors!
Also, be aware that USA enforces a range of rules such as having a flashlight, sound signals, lifejackets etc in your dinghy at all times and at night full lights even in a small dinghy ie P & S plus overtaking/steaming lights. An all round light (alone) is judged inadequate. Also you may find potty police who may board without warning to check your heads discharge valves are LOCKED in holding tank position. You may also be given a dye test to check valves work! Big fines if you get these things wrong! Because of the barge and ship trafic you must use agood (low down) anchor light.
I am sat here in UK with a (duplicate) set of charts in front of me for a few days, so come back quick directly to me for more info if you need it! I can give you lat/long for key places if needed.
If you are going to Canada you will enjoy it - it is worth the effort and a rather nicer place than the country you pass through to get there!
Good luck.
 
Simon!

What a shame! So your boat is here now? If you need anyone to take a look at the lines or anything, I'd be happy to take a look - You probably have that sorted though.

I do have my US visa - I got it in Barbados, so that's sorted.

Could you give me more detail on where exactly the 79th basin is - Maybe even a waypoint if it's not too much trouble? A waypoint for the alternative to Sandy Hook would be great to!

I've never used my heads, and they look as such - I think I have shoes stuffed in the bowl! Not sure how I could lock the seacocks though, however I'm quite certain their completely seized...

Anyway, just a short reply which I hope you get in time!

Thanks again for all the great info,

Nick!
 
West 79th street basin, as it is called, is at v approx 74 47.1N 73 59.2W - you cannot miss it! Lots of moorings & only place with moorings & is right in town cost about $100 a week (a bit of a guess as I have only passed by and talked to friends who HAVE been there!)
'Fraid I do not have chart for Staten Is immediately at hand but will boot up other omputer with CMap on it in an hour or two. Entrance is buoyed and and quite shallow at around 7ft.
 
Hi again
Outer channel buoy for entry to NY from south east is approx 40 26.47N 93 54.90W. From there follow, at the edge as it is v busy, buoyed channel to next point below.
Beware strong currents from this point onwards!
From above go to Flynns Knoll at 40 29N 73 59W; this point is just north of Sandy Hook point (which you need to round to go to Sandy Point Harbour or anywhere else.)
You could proceed from there to outer buoy of marked channel to Great Kills Harbour (which is actually a sheltered lagoon of approx 1 mile diameter with moorings in the middle and marinas on some sides) in position 40 31.247N 73 59.40W.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for offer to look at my boat (Calisto)- it is in a compound at Jolly Hbr and, hopefully, inaccessible! Incidentally, look out for "Golden Gate" Danish flagged Oyster 62 now in an Antigua marina as their Swedish skipper and his wife have just come down from NY in their own much smaller boat and may have charts and certainly more information.
 
Nick, here are a few more thoughts on New York Harbour. It's a huge, fascinating place with all sorts of traffic, from container ships and cruise ships to tugs towing or pushing barges, many ferries, and pleasure craft. Except in an emergency I would not want to enter or cross it for the first time at night; the complex channels, buoyage, and traffic are difficult enough to sort out in daylight. The Sandy Hook anchorage located a mile or so south of Sandy Hook on the inside, is not well protected, which could be a problem in squally summer weather. The protected Atlantic Highlands anchorage is about two miles further south. SimonJ's recommendation for Great Kills Harbour is good. I've never been there, but have heard others recommend it. The only place where tidal streams may stop you is Hell Gate, which you have to pass through to get from the East River to Long Island Sound and Greenport. Sorry, all my charts and pilots are in the boat in France so I can't give you any specifics. Re heads, regulations and enforcement vary greatly from state to state and place to place. I suspect you won't have a serious problem in New York Harbour. Will you stop at Bermuda or elsewhere? Fair winds and following seas. Alan.
 
Bloody hell nick! All that work I went into when you asked about going to NY! Pay attention man! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Get the current (no pun) 'Eldridge Tide and Pilot Book'. Thats the bible.

http://www.landfallnav.com/-bp002.html

The 2008 edition might be good if you're going this year. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif It's the bible for that stuff and all you need to know. No use taking notes on an internet forum for this stuff.

Also get Maptech chart book for that area too. Region 3. http://www.landfallnav.com/fchart.html

Skipper Bob's anchorages is also good for, er, anchorages.. as someone else said and I did a few weeks back.

Hells gate is fun through Manhattan. Had 14 knots on the log and was overtaking the morning rush hour cars.

I stayed at Worlds Fair Park - it's on the Long Island side of NYC next to La Guardia Airport. It was good.

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/marinas/html/worlds_fair_marina.html

Hope you're not going this weekend, big depression coming through. Met a mad Israeli delivery skipper who was lucky to sheer his prop off because he was going to chance taking a cat up to maine through it. He had two very relieved young crew who sat with me to watch the footy on wednesday breathing a sigh of relief.

I'm now in Nassau waiting for several days of northerlies / easterlies to clear. Beer time.
 
Thank you everyone so much, really appreciate it. I've saved the whole thread as a PDF NautiBusby, you have my full attention! - Excuse my short post, but I'm in a big rush to leave.

I am leaving today, however remember I'm leaving from Antigua, so if there is a big depression coming through, I doubt I'll reach it. But now you've got me worried - The weather routing forecast has no mention of this depression, and to be honest I can't see it either - Where is it exactly?
 
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