Now which one should I buy?

[Davydine]

Dear All,

we are looking for some suggestions for our next boat! we have decided to move to a smaller house and use the capital to buy a boat and go.

We will probably head to the Med either through the canals or round the coast and just potter round until funds run out! Probable 2 or 3 years, maybe more if we can.

The question is which boat! We can afford about £35K plus or minus £5K depending on condition. This is what we are thinking:

Ketch Rig - easy to handle and very flexible sail plan for 2 people.
Centre cockpit - more spacious aft cabin for us and use forecabin for the inevitable visitors.

As yet we have not had the chance to look at many boats but these are some we have considered so far:

Westerly 33 - Have sailed before and know this to be a good solid all rounder but aft cabin a little small.
Trintella IIIa - stunning boat but accomodation felt a little on the small side to comfortably live on board
Mirage 37 - see other post. Looks like decent accomodation for its size but not sure how seaworthy
Moody 33 - good but headroom limited in heads.

So what do you all think and what else should we look at?

Regards,

David

 

[ccscott49]

With modern sail handling equipment, do you really need a ketch, in a smallish boat? Although a mizzen is handy to keep you pointing in the right direction at anchor. The additional gear needed for a ketch, might just not be worth it. Cutter headed sloop might be a better idea.

 

[Davydine]

Good Point, it is not esential but it was just an initial feeling of what we both wanted. We will consider just about anything!

BTW I forgot to include the Hallberg Rassy Nab35. Does anyone know what they are like?

Regards,

David

 

[ccscott49]

I know the Nab 35, great boat! A friend lives on one, at present ion the beaulie? river, Paul is his name, he sometimes posts on here, he had himself, wife and two kids onboard and had room for all of them! I liked the boat, bit of wood here and there, not too much external timber to keep up. Nice boat.

 

[Twister_Ken]

If you are considering French canals bear in mind draft. The max draft that would be happy on most routes is about 1.3m, less would be better. Bilge keels don't really make sense in the Med where there's no real tide. If you run aground in a bilge keeler you only real option is a pull (either on your own anchor, or courtesy of another boat). Run aground in a fin and you can usually heel yourself off.

 

[Davydine]

Is there really that little water in the canals? I was figuring on nearer to 5 feet! OK maybe I need to re-think.

I agree I am not too keen on Bilge keels especially if I have to go "round the outside" They are fine here on the East coast, but would be IMHO a hinderance in the Med.

 

[Trevethan]

I figured five foot for the canals. any more and you'd need a huge engine to plough through the mud on the bottom.

I'd go with a ketch meself. I think they look prettier and the mizzen makes a great steadying sail when motoring.

Plus you have more places to hang forum burgees and so on!

 

[blackbird]

Ketches

I agree that the extra gear is a drawback and there is also some performance loss to windward. There are not many small ketches about these days, partly for these reasons. However, a well designed ketch has many advantages for short handed, relaxed cruising. They can be easily balanced to sail themselves, easily hove to and easily sailed in strong winds under jib and mizzen - a very restful rig. I wouldn't use that in really strong winds as I would prefer to keep the sail power central and the mizzen is usually less well stayed than the mainmast. But these characteristics, together with the usefulness of a mizzen in holding the boat head to wind when necessary, are very useful - as I often find when sailing singlehanded in a smallish ketch. And, of course, the look like proper ships, especially with that delightful sail, the mizzen staysail, set and drawing. NEVER contemplate a ketch or yawl without one of those!

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Ketches

Jib and mizzen known as "Jib and Jigger" very restful rig! I have a ketch 57', (with boom staysail and mizzen staysail!) and like it, I just thought that doing it all again, on a smaller boat, the more modern gear available makes more sense in a sloop rig, but as you say the mizzen is rather nice at anchor, but stoips you using a cockpit awning, if you are aft cockpit, unless you rig it under the boom, which is a little awkward, I know.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Canal depths

CA says:

Max draught UK to Med 1m80. Burgundy route 1m40. Nivernais canal, 1m00. Canal du midi 1m60. Brittany canals 1m20...
...Do not place too much reliance on published figures, on some canals silting has taken place, and water levels are sometimes reduced in very dry weather. Even in normal conditions there are not many mooring places with full depth alongside.

Also, allow 10cm more draught in fresh water

 

[charles_reed]

You pays your money and takes your pick.

Some basic guidelines tho'

1. Don't just look in the UK - it's the most expensive boating scene in the world, so you'll find better value for money elsewhere.
2. Go for the greatest LWL your money can buy - LWL influences speed, load capacity, comfort...
3. I'd suggest a ketch is an affectation in under 40' LOA, they were popular in the 60's because of the crudity of rigging, fabrics and winches, and on the ocean racing scene 20 years later because of rating quirks. With more modern boats the benefits in sailhandling are outweighed by reduced windward ability, increased processes and additional prime and running costs.
4. Canal-ability and seaworthiness tend to be inversely related.

When I retired, I did the scenic route around France and Iberia in preference to the canals, even though my min draught is about 800mm and found it great fun, with the best cruising grounds where none go, in the Galician Rias.
The Western Med tho' is pretty ghastly, nasty shore scenery, unpleasantly strong winds or utter calms and horrid short, sharp, vindictive seas.
Better by far are the Atlantic coasts - cleaner, prettier, cheaper, less crowded, better winds!!!
The comment about the canal draughts are not far from the facts - Midi is less than stated, down to about 1.2, though I believe, where peniches are still operating silting is much reduced and 1.6m is commonplace in other parts of the canal system.
The expert on French waterways is Marion Martin, if you like to e-mail me direct I'll give you her internet address in France.

By the bye, my boat is sloop-rigged and most of my sailing is single-handed.
The shallow draught capability has been great for rivers (some canalised)

 

[Kathryn]

Have you considered the Sadler 34. An excellent boat for heavy weather. Very strongly built and comfortable. Aft bunk space a bit small but if you can live with that you have excellent stowage and reliability. Go for the fin keel though.

 

[paulstevens]

Greetings David,

last October we sold our centre cockpit MacwesterWight ketch and bought a centre cockpit Westerly 33 ketch. We have found her to be a super boat particularly in heavy weather. My wife and I have sailed together for 26 years but she has always used the ferry for north sea crossings. Out of the blue last week afer some fairly rough going off Lowestoft she suddenly announced she would be happy to try a north sea crossing in our present boat. I can tell you that is one hell of a tribute to the design!
Some very good and logical points against the ketch under 50' LOA rig have been made here but dont let logic get in the way. We have owned 5 ketches in the past and my wife will not sail on anything else. With the W33 you can set the mizzen from the cockpit and with a reefing headsail this is a brilliant and adequate cruising rig in anything over F4. Years ago the landlord of a well known east coast hostelry looked out at our boat and declared thus:

"I always think two mast turns a mere yacht into a little ship". Couldn't agree more and have spent a small fortune in his pub since.

Do consider buying abraod. We bought our boat in the Netherlands and by driving a hard bargain saved about £8000. Have a look at www.botenbank.nl and www.yachtselect.nl.

Best of luck.

 

[Davydine]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the Dutch Web-sites - I will take a look at them. Interesting to hear your comments about the Westerly 33 Ketch. My in-laws used to sail one and I have done a couple of channel crossings on her and both my Wife and I love the versatility of her Rig and comfortable motion in a seaway.

We will be sad to let "Idaho" go, not least because we have just spent quite a lot of money giving her a heart transplant (a brand new Nanni 14hp!), but sadly she would not be big enough for us to live aboard.

Can you tell me anything about the Macwester Malin and Seaforth? I like the idea of an aft cabin which is the full width of the boat, also have you ever come across a Mirage 37? They look a little like a Seaforth to me and look to have fantastic liveaboard but I am not to sure about the hull shape and I can find very little info.

Great to hear from you

David

 

[paulstevens]

David,

just off to catch the Harwich Hook night boat, have job in Hindeloopen tomorrow.
Give me a ring later this week re various other boats.