November YM anchor test - Delta

srm said:
In which case I apologise most profusely - I share similar experiences with a "Stuart NONE Turner" in the first yacht I sailed.

I was simply trying to nudge the 'motor boats with sails' brigade that seems to make up the vast majority of "sailing" boat owners to try using sails for all manouvers (as you may well have been). If the wind is suitable I am not adverse to sailing out or in to my marina berth. (And once was applauded by surprised visitors just for sailing around the end of the breakwater). I once had a YM instructor criticise me for anchoring on a run in light airs. Presumably, he was another 'mobo with sails' type at heart and unable to accept that its possible to put the helm over just before checking the chain to avoid it touching the hull.

I was anchored in the mouth of the Helford River for a day on May bank holiday. It was interesting to see that the most of the boats that worked up the river under sail (rather than motor sail) were gaff rigged, plus a modified Freedom 35 with a junk rig. Three of the gaffers tacking up the river were a lot bigger and heavier than most of the 'mobos with sails' that chugged past.

Now that GPS has taken all the fun out of navigation I find the most satisfying aspect of owning a boat is handling under sail - with the occasional use of a sweep or a warp to avoid shattering the peace of a still evening.
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Good to read your posts gentlemen.I am almost inclined to get out my Peter Tangvald & quote from that ( page 75 Sea Gypsy incase anybody is interested).:)
 
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snowleopard said:
The exact opposite of what I was saying. I didn't say dump it all in a heap. The correct method as far as I'm concerned is to stop, then let the cable out as the boat drifts on wind or tide. A delay to allow the movement to stretch out the cable over the sea bed then progressively set the anchor. Once that has happened one can start to pull astern to dig it in fully and finally test it with full astern. To drop the anchor and immediately go astern to set it is likely to result in it sliding over the sea bed.

Even though my power windlass has a free-fall option, I don't use it because it is too fast and could dump the chain on top of the anchor, fouling it.
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Oops sorry I missread your response. The method described above is the same method we use, Imust say that we only have the cuppa after checking we are firmly held and checking for transits for further ref, points.

Peter
 
LadyInBed said:
Well it has certainly had time to set! :)

QUOTE]

Sometimes it feels like it has been there forever - like last time I anchored off Shipstal on a breezy day when the entire plough part was a ball of mud when I eventually got it up. Few days previously had a similar size ball of eel grass after a couple of abortive attempts to anchor in Studland!
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Tranona said:
Sometimes it feels like it has been there forever - like last time I anchored off Shipstal on a breezy day when the entire plough part was a ball of mud when I eventually got it up. Few days previously had a similar size ball of eel grass after a couple of abortive attempts to anchor in Studland!
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Ooh; you're going to burn in Hell! :D
 
jhr said:
Ooh; you're going to burn in Hell! :D
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I know! I was actually anchoring in an area that I know was bare sand 25 years ago to illustrate to certain people that the eel grass beds are growing in size, not declining. However, as it does not fit their view of the world so they still don't accept it! Wish I had taken photos 25 years ago when my children were playing in the clear shallow water in the same spot.
 
snowleopard said:
My feeling is that you get way too much of 'my anchor is best' and very little informed comparison around here. The most valuable posts are those that give experiences of more than one type
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Running a charter company with a variety of boats and anchors in a windy cruising region teaches some lessons. One soon discovers a few things:

1. Some types of anchor require a lot of technique to set properly. It's silly to use these in a charter environment. Goodbye CQR and Claw anchors. Those who enjoy exercising arcane anchoring techniques may keep them. They may also try to persuade others that they're fun to use, because they require greater skills. Reminds me of motorists who bemoan the passing of crash gearboxes. Sextants . . . ah. that's another thread.

2. Different types of anchors require different scopes to develop maximum holding. Britany, for instance, needs slightly over 6:1, as do many others. Rocna gets away with 4:1. The quoted tests were done with 5:1. Go out there and check for yourself what the optimum scope is for your anchor. It should hold you with full astern (if you're a typical sail boat). Try first with 7:1. Then shorten and try again. At around 5:1 or maybe less it'll pop out - unless it has found a bedstead or sub cable. And if you're in 5 to 7m of water, it doesn't matter two stuffs whether you have chain or rope, chums or whatever.

3. Different types of anchor require different scopes to set easily, though some will always be a little unreliable on some bottoms. The lesser the scope, the more that technique comes into play. On your boat, try initial sets with ever decreasing scopes. At 7:1 you can drop the hook with two to three knots ahead, letting the pull swing the boat head to wind and snatch the anchor deep in. I was shown the technique in big gaffers in 1956; vital when engine failure was common. I've even used it with CQR, when I knew the anchorage and the bottom should take it. But they were a bit hit or miss compared to Britanys. At 5:1 or 4:1 you've got to be canny, tickling it in more gently. A strange British habit is to use somewhere around 3:1 (usually with the excuse that there's too little swinging room). No wonder Brits drag anchors a lot, play with technique, chums and other complex devices as a substitute for scope.

Conclusion? Learn to test; test to learn. Try different scopes with your anchor. Try them with rope, and try them with chain. Discover the scope which gives you maximum holding. That will amost certainly be the scope at which setting technique no longer matters (well, excepting heaps of chain on top of the anchor!). And if you can't hold full astern, consider a bigger anchor. Or maybe another make.

Warning: when doing these tests, make sure the load is taken through a really sturdy fitting, not through the anchor winch drum spindle, which could fail in torque!
 
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parsifal said:
Sorry - anchor threads can't be ended after just two pages. Got to have a couple of fist-fights before it finishes.
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I have a 400 lb CQR with 100 fathoms of 1" chain. It has never dragged yet. Anyone who uses one of these new-fangled little anchors is no seaman.
 
I don't see how anyone can consider themselves a proper seaman without having had the experience of dragging an anchor. If you've never done it, how would you know it's happening? I consider it as fundamental as a knowledge of how to use a leadline and the art of drudging.
 
Last year we tried to anchor with a 20kg Delta 3 or 4 times in soft mud with some grass in the Med and each time dragged merrily along. There was only one other boat in the bay (I wonder why!) - two Germans guys who asked if they could help.

I was glad for the offer and they came aboard and we tried another 3 or 4 times before we finally got a "bite". They mentioned that they had anchored there many times because it was so quiet and always got their hook, a "hoop type", to hold first time.

I went home, bought a Rocna 25kg, and have not dragged since - mind you, I've not been back to the same bay yet either!

Richard
 
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