not wearing life jackets

[simonfraser]

pyefleet today, steady 25 knots, gusting 30. tide ebbing with the wind.

one chap out in his rubber duck, flat bottomed, small job, rowing his guts out eventually getting to his boat, only just by the looks of it - no life jacket - on his own.


9m yacht, smaller person on the wheel, wearing a life jacket, chap on the bow picking up the mooring - no life jacket.
they had at least 10 goes before they succeeded, all done very calmly, but if he'd fallen in there was little chance of him being picked up in time . . . .


am i just getting old and too cautious ??!!

 

[Blue5]

Life Jackets

Each to there own, we wear them all the time but that's our choice. Don't consider it being over cautious just sensible

 

[Shiver Metimbers]

Modern jackets are so small, neat add compact we don't find it an issue to wear them all of the time while on deck.

 

[30boat]

I don't ever wear one.Maybe when the weather is really rough at night and I have to reef I will.Apart from that I just hold on well.

 

[Searush]

So the guy in the dinghy could have simply turned back if there was an issue. Unless there was strong tide/ waves, or dinghy heavily loaded, I probably wouldn't bother with a lifejacket either.

Guy anchoring - have you ever fallen over while anchoring? I'll bet you didn't go in the water. There is a forestay & a pullpit to hold onto, perhaps a harness might be usefull, but a lifejacket? Fall in & what will smaller person at wheel be able to see or do? Very little is my guess. Lifejackets are not the be all & end all of safety gear, they do have value sometimes, but it is 100 times better to not go in the water in the first place so a harness is my prefered choice on the main boat if conditions are dodgy.

The RNLI call for lifejackets at all times is appropriate for ill-equipped small boats which probably comprise the majority of the "Birmingham Navy" style call-outs, but less so for well found sea-going boats.

 

[fireball]

am i just getting old and too cautious ??!!

yes!! Rubber duck has plenty of buoyancy either way up - and if he's by himself he's not likely to fall out.

Picking up a mooring with no lifejacket - whatever next?! Dear dear, I mean, he's going to hang on for dear life if the helm can't quite get the boat to the buoy ... oh, no, he didn't as it took them quite a few attempts to pick it up!

I had a "dodgy approach" to my mooring a few weeks ago - came in too fast under sail and couldn't stop the boat, brother had picked up the warp, but couldn't hold on - I went to help, decided it wasn't happenning so threw it back into the tender and went round for another go - no question of either of us going into the water - we're not stupid!

 

[Spyro]

Probably

Picked up in time....before what?
The situations you describe would give me no reason to wear a lifejacket.

 

[elton]

am i just getting old and too cautious ??!!

I don't think so. I can't think of any reason not to wear one. Like I can't think of any reason not to use a seat belt, or ride a motorcycle or a bicycle without a helmet. I've got a crash helmet I kept after a 70mph triple summersault with two lumps smashed out of it, and there's a life jacket floating somewhere in the North Sea that was cut off me by an RAF winchman a couple of years ago.

You can just never tell what's going to happen next!

 

[William_H]

Lifejackets

The posts above seem to be trying to make rules about wearing lifejackets.
It is to my7 mind a thing to be determined at the time by the skipper or the wearer.
Sometimes it seems like the most obvious and important thing to do while at other times it is not necessary.
I always give passengers a choice in case they are nervous or can't swim.
I more often wear a bouyancy vest myself as skipper knowing that if I go over the boat may not be turned around to pick me up.
I have had 2 MOB situations neither wearing lifejacket. The first was very relieved to be picked up by another boat while the second was not too concerned and waited patiently. But then we have relatively warm water and it is unusual for anyone to be unable to swim.
The bouyancy vests we wear (as opposed to those lifejackets required to be carried maewests) are reasonably comfortable with foam around the midrift such that they provide warmth and some protection from bumps. If they get too hot to wear then it is coincidentally not necessary to wear them.
Strangely with older age I tend to encourage the wearing much more.
Of course in a small dinghy you would not sail without bouyancy, you need it to be able to work effectively in a capsize. (which is almost inevitable at some point.
Just be practical olewill

 

[oceanfroggie]

Small craft, underway, on open deck, not wearing a PFD or harness - Darwin comes to mind

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I think it's up to individuals to decide what risks they face and how best to deal with them.

My view:
Before the mid 90's I don't think I'd ever worn a life jacket. Far too bulky.

Then inflatable lifejackets come along and all of a sudden common sense goes out of the window and lifejackets become the be all and end all of boat safety - even the RNLI don't mention clipping on in their adverts.

I rarely wear a LJ in a tender, I don't accept that it's of much use to me in such cases. The first prioirty if you fall in off the tender into cold water is to get yourself out of the water fast and that's going to involve stripping off and making for another boat or the shore ASAP. Certainly a LJ is only going to hinder that.

If I felt the need to wear a LJ picking up a bouy/anchoring (I don't) I'd simply clip on. Why not?

Incidently, did the people who always wear lifejackets find them unhelpfully bulky in the days before inflatable lifejackets?

 

[aslabend]

It's much easier to get back into a rubber dinghy or climb up your topsides from the water when not wearing a lifejacket (especially it's an auto-inflater). Life jackets are great if you want to float around for a bit waiting for someone to help you but they greatly reduce (stop) your ability to help yourself. Because of this I pick and choose when and where I wear one, advice from the RNLI is great but it still boils down to a personal decision.

 

[andy01842]

Do not the RNLI always wear lifejackets?
How well can you swim when unconscious, the boom is not the only way to knock oneself out.
If you find a lifjacket in the way when in the water could you not let it down?

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Why blame the "Birmingham Navy" for the call-outs? Just because they have an accent that jars, doesn't mean that they havn't the same average seamanship skills as any one else! Until the Chinese usurped the trades, most fittings for yachts were manufactured in Birmingham and the Black Country and there is plenty of nautical experience in the area.

 

[Searush]

Why blame the "Birmingham Navy" for the call-outs? Just because they have an accent that jars, doesn't mean that they havn't the same average seamanship skills as any one else! Until the Chinese usurped the trades, most fittings for yachts were manufactured in Birmingham and the Black Country and there is plenty of nautical experience in the area.

"Calm down, calm down" (I used to be a Scouser) I live in the Midlands too. I know there are a lot of sensible boaters from round here, many are fellow members of the Royal Welsh and very capable. BUT, the phrase is used to describe people from any inland connurbation who buy a small sportsboat, tow it to the seaside without testing it & launch without charts, tide tables, anchor, vhf, gps etc etc & have to be rescued when it all goes wrong. The Five people including a babe in arms who were rescued last weekend off Anglesey are pretty typical. It is a serious problem & denying it is silly. It is nothing to do with accents, class or type of boat. It is all about ignorance which is dangerous & easily cured with information.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Do not the RNLI always wear lifejackets?

The RNLI *talk* a lot about life jackets, but when you go on a lifeboat you see the toughest, best secured jack stays you've ever seen in your life.

PS: Someone above mentioned head injury as a reason to wear LJs. I think head injury is a very real risk on boats. (I think the statistics back this up.) Why is it a problem for some to pick up a bouy with no LJ but not a problem to sail without head protection? Explain?

 

[Lakesailor]

Personal choice. I don't, but do have bouyancy aids for anyone who jumps in my dinghy with me. Just occasionally I will put one on. Can't really see why, but I just do now and then. (Probably explained by chilly wind)

 

[tudorsailor]

Lifejacket

I don't think so. I can't think of any reason not to wear one. Like I can't think of any reason not to use a seat belt, or ride a motorcycle or a bicycle without a helmet. I've got a crash helmet I kept after a 70mph triple summersault with two lumps smashed out of it, and there's a life jacket floating somewhere in the North Sea that was cut off me by an RAF winchman a couple of years ago.

You can just never tell what's going to happen next!

Tootling along in the Med with the thermometer touching 30 degrees. Water temperature is over 20 degrees. No lifejacket during the day unless the conditions get rough and we start to reef. Rest of the time shorts +/- t-shirt.

TudorSailor

 

[Sans Bateau]

answering no post in particular

Its all well and good playing the 'personal choice' card. But how often on the forum do we hear the view being aired that we should be self sufficient and not have to rely on the CG or RNLI to get us out of trouble when things go wrong. Like phoning the AA when the car breaks down.

Wearing a life jacket is part of this self sufficiency. If you fall overboard the the CG will rather you issue a MOB mayday as soon as it happens. Give the guys who turn up in either a SAR helio or life boat a chance to recover a survivor rather than a body. Even picking up a mooring, falling overboard without a LJ you can go into shock, a bit of a blunder developing into a real problem, likewise the chap rowing out in his dinghy.

As for those who supply LJ's to visitors to their boats but decline a jacket themselves. Who's going to to do the pickup if you fall over the side?

Dont be macho or selfish, think of others who might have to fish you out.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

Its all well and good playing the 'personal choice' card. But how often on the forum do we hear the view being aired that we should be self sufficient and not have to rely on the CG or RNLI to get us out of trouble when things go wrong. Like phoning the AA when the car breaks down.

Wearing a life jacket is part of this self sufficiency. If you fall overboard the the CG will rather you issue a MOB mayday as soon as it happens. Give the guys who turn up in either a SAR helio or life boat a chance to recover a survivor rather than a body. Even picking up a mooring, falling overboard without a LJ you can go into shock, a bit of a blunder developing into a real problem, likewise the chap rowing out in his dinghy.

As for those who supply LJ's to visitors to their boats but decline a jacket themselves. Who's going to to do the pickup if you fall over the side?

Dont be macho or selfish, think of others who might have to fish you out.

Completely agreee. I think all this stuff about LJ's impeding your swimming etc rather ignores the reality of unexpectedly finding oneself immersed in water at 10-12deg C. I strongly suspect that for many of us over the age of 50 or so the main function of a LJ is to enable recovery of our lifeless body after the heart attack that may well follow falling in the sea.