Not under command?

[rivonia]

This is interesting as when we crossed BISCAY we had engine trouble and I had gashed my leg which was bleeding very badly. On the AIS all vessels were avoiding us apart from one which was on a collision course with us. My wife (just two of us) repeatedly asked the vessel to take avoiding action, to no avail. I eventually looked at the ais on the chart plotter and the said vessel was 'NOT UNDER COMMAND' I gave them our position and there position as wellas there MMSI nuber and told them we cannot move. I then said I was about to fire flares. Back came the reply '' I will move 10degs to starboard''. So how come he could move when NOT UNDER COMMAND? It was a navy vessel.

Peter

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... So how come he could move when NOT UNDER COMMAND? ....

The only answer available with no other information is that Captain regained command of his vessel, sufficient to move 10 degrees!

One could speculate as to what conclusion an enquiry would come to if he ran you down while being NUC. If you survived the collision what would you have said to the enquiry about your vessels status with regards to the IRPCS obligations?

 

[ancientsailor]

This is interesting as when we crossed BISCAY we had engine trouble and I had gashed my leg which was bleeding very badly. On the AIS all vessels were avoiding us apart from one which was on a collision course with us. My wife (just two of us) repeatedly asked the vessel to take avoiding action, to no avail. I eventually looked at the ais on the chart plotter and the said vessel was 'NOT UNDER COMMAND' I gave them our position and there position as wellas there MMSI nuber and told them we cannot move. I then said I was about to fire flares. Back came the reply '' I will move 10degs to starboard''. So how come he could move when NOT UNDER COMMAND? It was a navy vessel.

Peter

I wonder if that was manually input status? Perhaps should have been restricted in ability to manoeuvre?

 

[angelsson]

Read the Colregs!

"Not under command" is defined in Rule 3(f)

COLREGS

Exactly

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I feel sorry for the original poster, he is a newbie who asked a simple question.
I imagine he was expecting or hoping for a simple answer.

 

[prv]

If they failed to keep a look out they would be contravening another coll reg. [...] Look out and NUC rules are both very clear.

Yes, they are very clear. I'm not suggesting that anyone is misunderstanding them.

The situation I'm describing is that they are ignoring them - believe it or not, in the real world people do do that. I have no idea whether fishermen commonly abandon the wheelhouse and stick up NUC lights; OldSaltOz says they do and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

There is nothing pragmatic about applying the IRPCS

I don't understand your point. By "pragmatic", I meant "not within the rules, but nevertheless achieving the desired effect of not being run into".

Pete

 

[VicS]

I feel sorry for the original poster, he is a newbie who asked a simple question.
I imagine he was expecting or hoping for a simple answer.

Follow my link to the colregs, (but anyone doing a DS course should have a set anyway)

You will find:

"The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional
circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep
out of the way of another vessel."​

You cannot put it any simpler than that !

The OP asks, "how a vessel can be not under command but still making way?"

The answer is that NUC does not imply that it is not making way, just cannot manoeuvre as required by the Colregs


I notice no offering of any value from yourself!

.

 

[ancientsailor]

I think the thread has perhaps drifted [into interesting areas]

The core question was how can a vessel be:

making way

and not under command .... The OP indicated he was having trouble visualising a scenario. Most people I've encountered readily visualise "carrying way" while NUC, but don't immediately think of circumstances where a vessel might be making way

I gave two examples - I am sure there are others.

 

[blackbeard]

I once saw a number of large commercial vessels each with two red mastheads.
I think they were assembling a convoy to go through the Straits of Gib. and thus liable to manoeuvre withough warning.
Somewhat disconcerting.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I notice no offering of any value from yourself!

.

I did post something that I thought might be helpful and welcomed the OP to the forum. I then saw your post about looking at the colregs and thought "that's a bit short" and maybe a tad unfriendly but said nothing as I try to be polite and I'm not a moderator.

Then I post again saying how I thought the OP might feel when he returned to the thread and up you pop again, this time even more direct (one might say confrontational).

 

[VicS]

"that's a bit short"

Succinct !

A bit of googling comes up with the following suggestions as to what might contitute N.U.C.

a vessel which have had breakdown of her engine(s);
a vessel which have had breakdown of her steering gear;
a vessel which have lost a propeller;
a vessel which have lost her rudder;
a vessel with her anchor down but not holding;
a vessel riding to anchor chains with anchors unshackled;
a sailing vessel becalmed;
a vessel affected in such an exceptional way by weather conditions, that she is unable to keep out of the way of another vessel by alteration of course and/or speed, thus justifying her showing of not under command signals.​

Not all, it must be admitted, are cases where the vessel would be making way but, by definition, the circumstances are exceptional.

The point is that the definition of NUC does not preclude rare and exceptional cases in which the vessel might be making way.

 

[ithet]

Not Captain has gone for swim.

"Not Under Command" really means "not able to respond to controls" rather then "there is no captain on board"!

It refers to a vessel underway that is disabled from manouevering.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The only answer available with no other information is that Captain regained command of his vessel, sufficient to move 10 degrees!

One could speculate as to what conclusion an enquiry would come to if he ran you down while being NUC. If you survived the collision what would you have said to the enquiry about your vessels status with regards to the IRPCS obligations?

Lots of ships have manual over ride of their steering motors for when they fail. Its possible to man a hand pump and pump hydraulic through to alter the rudder - but its not a very practicable way to actually maintain a course or alter course very often! If you try to actually steer a course using this method, its exhausting and not practical for the people on the pumps, hence he might have declared, 'NUC'.

 

[Hardley]

Many years ago, I served on a RN Survey ship and we frequently flew the signal “under way but not under command” this was when we were picking up or laying our beacons.
With a swimmer in the water, hooking beacon to derrick tackle, we could not use the engine, once the swimmer was back on board, we would use the engines to keep position on the beacon, whilst lifting or laying.
So we were under way but not under command. I.e. we were attached to the beacon, which was anchored or being anchored to the sea bed, but unable to manoeuvre.

 

[prv]

Many years ago, I served on a RN Survey ship and we frequently flew the signal “under way but not under command” this was when we were picking up or laying our beacons.

I'm surprised this wasn't treated as restricted in ability to manoeuvre.

Pete

 

[chriscoreline]

Succinct !

A bit of googling comes up with the following suggestions as to what might contitute N.U.C.
...
a vessel with her anchor down but not holding;
...

I thought this was covered by 'my engins are astearn'?

infact isnt the 'four honk' code for 'i am trailing an anchor'?

anyway, post unrelated, carry on.

 

[Madhatter]

"Fred drift "

One wonders if the op is related to our Mr. "Wellrigged"
BTW - Welcome to the eeeerrrrruummmmm forumm

 

[electrosys]

Auto pilot engaged but no one at the helm.

An expression which, methinks, applies to many skippers after a bevy or three - onboard or ashore ....

 

[VicS]

I thought this was covered by 'my engins are astearn'?

infact isnt the 'four honk' code for 'i am trailing an anchor'?

anyway, post unrelated, carry on.

The signal for "I am operating astern propulsion" is 3 short blasts on the whistle, which may be supplemented by 3 flashes of on all-round white light.
You should give that signal as you reverse out of your marina berth!

4 short blasts is the signal which may be given, in reduced visibility, by a pilot vessel on pilotage duties.

5 short blasts mean "get out of my fecking way"

 

[Manuel_Hung]

Thank you so much everyone. I was hoping to get an answer, but wasn't expecting to get one so thorough. That has certainly cleared that up for me. I’m glad it’s not completely clear cut, it made the response more interesting.
Joining a forum is definitely a leg up when distance learning.