Not like the old days . . .

[Haven't-a-Clue]

Well you will be glad to hear, that when we took up sailing 2 years ago, we bought a boat, bought some books about sailing, launched the boat and started learning. We haven't sunk the boat or fallen out of it yet.

So I think I qualify as "old school" even though just about everybody advises you NOT to start sailing the way we did.

Ah, that's where you went wrong, see, you shoul've done it the other way 'round like I did, book first to pique (sp?) interest then get a boat. I haven't sunk (myself or anything else!!) or fallen out either though, so I guess it don't matter which way. I do wonder why 'everybody' advises not to do it that way.

I'm definitely 'old school' in that sense, the first time I let out sail and the boat moved without engine.....magic.

 

[Searush]

Thankfully, time has moved on since Captain Edward Smith R.D. R.N.R. went down with his ship and 1514 passengers and crew of the RMS Titanic on the night of 15 April 1912.

(snip)

Thinking about this, he wasn't exactly a "Newbie" was he? And the boat was as up to date & innovative as possible at the time - "State of the Art" even with watertight bulkheads, rocket flares, lifeboats & even Radio transmitters.

In fact it does rather nicely illustrate my point about being over confident when surrounded by all the latest toys, doesn't it?

 

[[70521]]

Thinking about this, he wasn't exactly a "Newbie" was he? And the boat was as up to date & innovative as possible at the time - "State of the Art" even with watertight bulkheads, rocket flares, lifeboats & even Radio transmitters.

In fact it does rather nicely illustrate my point about being over confident when surrounded by all the latest toys, doesn't it?

My lovely daughter would say, you are putting it in historical context. So the old ways are the ways of the Vikings, or Greeks or should we all sail in the Thor Heyerdahl style?

In engineering terms the Titanic moved the technology of ship building on and I love the blog 10 project management lessons from the titanic disaster.

At the end of the day things change embrace change and enjoy that pint when you get home.

His eyes are rather close together!

 

[Ehecatl]

The Church

I thought the Church frowned on that sort of thing?

Pete

Seems to positively encourage it

 

[ossy moses]

You can still drop your own mooring aroundb the Wirral,mersey and dee areaws.

 

[laffinskip]

old days

yeah but in 10 minutes some bugger will have pinched it.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

It's called progress Mr Searush. Do you drive a car with an engine, or do you get around on a horse?

 

[Searush]

It's called progress Mr Searush. Do you drive a car with an engine, or do you get around on a horse?

I wish I could afford to keep a pony & trap for local trips. There used to be a lady neighbour who did. It was a lovely sight & sound, trotting past. But I do have a bicycle, would that suffice?

Not all that's new is necessarily better, is it? Political Police Commissioners for one example.

And the relative benefits do come at a very high cost, which I for one cannot afford. Good luck to the megga-buck boaters with all mod con, but I am happy to manage without them & without the megga debt to support it.

Hang on! How is it progress that many people are scared to learn to sail on their own in a cheap boat? Seems like regression & excessive fear to me.

 

[maxi77]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who seem to believe formal training is bad. Unlike Searush I was lucky and got training as a teenager from outward bound school and then the RN. Mind you there are also people on this forum who claim to know everything as well so perhaps they are in good company. There is nothing inherantly wrong with being self taught , or with informal training either but if it was available I would always vote for the real thing

 

[Searush]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who seem to believe formal training is bad. Unlike Searush I was lucky and got training as a teenager from outward bound school and then the RN. Mind you there are also people on this forum who claim to know everything as well so perhaps they are in good company. There is nothing inherantly wrong with being self taught , or with informal training either but if it was available I would always vote for the real thing

NO! I'm NOT saying formal training is bad per se. I'm just saying it isn't essential, it's just one option that is available, if you can afford it, or find a taxpayer to fund it for you!

But Self learning is just as valid, if the person does actually learn of course, some don't seem to whether formally trained or not.

 

[oldvarnish]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who seem to believe formal training is bad.

Anyone who says 'formal training is bad' is crazy. But it is reasonable to suggest that formal training is not complete

 

[Victoria Sponge]

I wish I could afford to keep a pony & trap for local trips. There used to be a lady neighbour who did. It was a lovely sight & sound, trotting past. But I do have a bicycle, would that suffice?

Not all that's new is necessarily better, is it? Political Police Commissioners for one example.

And the relative benefits do come at a very high cost, which I for one cannot afford. Good luck to the megga-buck boaters with all mod con, but I am happy to manage without them & without the megga debt to support it.

Hang on! How is it progress that many people are scared to learn to sail on their own in a cheap boat? Seems like regression & excessive fear to me.

I have a bicycle as well, but I'd love a pony and trap. Mr Sponge learned to sail in dinghies, he started off in canoes! When he'd had enough of getting wet he decided to buy something a bit bigger and by this time I had more time to join in. We had a 21 to start with and had loads of fun with it. I think you're so right that the amount of fun you can have with boating isn't in any way related to how much money you spend.

 

[Bru]

Plenty of us Oldies taught ourselves, any newbies started out with a Ladybird book of sailing (or equivalent "Dummies Guide to") recently?.

Yup

Well you will be glad to hear, that when we took up sailing 2 years ago, we bought a boat, bought some books about sailing, launched the boat and started learning. We haven't sunk the boat or fallen out of it yet.

So I think I qualify as "old school" even though just about everybody advises you NOT to start sailing the way we did.

Just like ProDave really. Can just about afford the boat, sure as hell can;t afford to go on RYA training courses. I would if I could mind you because I'm sure I'd learn lots

Then again I wouldn;t claim to be particulaly old school - I've got DSC VHF, chart software on a laptop, charts on my smartphone, GPS, tiller pilot. I like technology, I understand it and within certain limits I trust it. Mind you, critically we do not have any single points of failure (other than the tiller pilot which isn't essential anyway) and we do carry paper charts, compass etc, as a back up (frankly though navigating with them on a small boat like ours is a bloody nuisance but we could if we had to)

And apropo another thread I certainly wouldn't contemplate heading beyond the river mouth without some sort of passage plan. OK, it might be nothing more than a note of the tide times at Whitaker and Bradwell waterside and a mental note of the weather forecast for a nip round the corner into the Blackwater (but then in summer thats all in categorised waters anyway and a formal passage plan isn't legally necessary). Beyond that I would without question go into a lot more detail

We keep a log as well ... but I'm afraid Searush won't like it 'cos it's an app on the smartphone ... mind you, up to now we have not sailed out of sight of visual references and if we ever do, say across the North Sea, I would note our position in good old fashioned paper every half hour or so in case of complete technical failure. If it happened during our normal sailing I pretty much know where I am anyway and could quickly plot a fix

 

[Retired in Crete]

I do think that electrickery has taken some of the satisfaction out of sailing.

I can still vividly remember a voyage made over 40 years ago from Bembridge (I.O.W) to Lymington in thick fog. With only a compass and D.R I almost collided with the nav mark (is it "Jack in a basket"?) just outside Lymington. The thought of it still brings a smile to my face!

Now, I use the chart plotter to pick out the marina lights from the background town lights. A lot of the real challenge of navigation has been taken away.

John

 

[johnalison]

I am not going to fall for the temptation to say "things are not as good as they used to be", though they have certainly changed. Modern equipment such as radar, AIS, VHF and plotters are very enjoyable and add a lot to the fun of sailing today. What may be missing is the romance that sailing used to induce, as shown by the books and magazines of the time.

I fear that for many of the new breed of sailor a boat is just another commodity item, like a car, though it occurs to me that the car itself was seen as a gateway to a new world by the people of the 1920s.

There are still plenty of people sailing on a shoestring and doing almost everything the hard way. I have great respect for them and hope we can all keep the sport open for them to enjoy unhindered.

 

[maxi77]

Anyone who says 'formal training is bad' is crazy. But it is reasonable to suggest that formal training is not complete

No training is ever complete you can always improve, learn new skills etc.

 

[maxi77]

NO! I'm NOT saying formal training is bad per se. I'm just saying it isn't essential, it's just one option that is available, if you can afford it, or find a taxpayer to fund it for you!

But Self learning is just as valid, if the person does actually learn of course, some don't seem to whether formally trained or not.

And I am not saying that self or any form of informal training is bad either. Over a lifetime of sailing mine is a mixture like many. What I am arguing against is the undercurrent on these forums that formal training is bad, a rip off and not even needed, mainly by people who also claim to not need any further training.

 

[Bru]

I do think that electrickery has taken some of the satisfaction out of sailing.

I can still vividly remember a voyage made over 40 years ago from Bembridge (I.O.W) to Lymington in thick fog. With only a compass and D.R I almost collided with the nav mark (is it "Jack in a basket"?) just outside Lymington. The thought of it still brings a smile to my face!

Now, I use the chart plotter to pick out the marina lights from the background town lights. A lot of the real challenge of navigation has been taken away.

Surely only because you've chosen to let it be "taken away"?

After all, what does the technology actually do? It delivers an accurate position fix and it offers an electronic screen alternative to a paper chart

True, it's dead easy to just draw a straight line on the screen and follow the rolling road on the GPS and sometimes it's simply easier to do so but there's nothing to stop the modern navigator from plotting tidal vectors, wind routings, clearing bearings and so on. If it pops your cork you can still do dead reckoning, three point fixes and all the rest. be honest though, it's a lot easier to just get long and lat off the GPS screen innit?

In fact, navigation is one of the aspects of sailing Brigantia I enjoy the most (as my regular crew will cheerfully agree I'm definitely not a tiller hog, quite the opposite) and I'm working my way through the textbook developing all the traditional skills but, and here's the key thing, largely using modern technology to apply them rather than pencil, paper and compass

 

[Zagato]

Self learning hmmm........ did that the hard way 4 years ago the first time I took my Drascombe Longboat out.

I thought I would just jump in and play around just outside of Chichester Harbour entrance I had no idea

No life jacket
No charts, grounded it and bent the rudder
Didn't tell anyone were I was going
Didn't realise about tides (no idea why when tacking I wasn't getting anywhere!)
Half my knots came undone so the sails were flapping off their spars

It goes on but now I am Mr get the knowledge and get safe.

The best way I learn is going out on Rallies with the ole boys of 40 + years experience whilst the forum is good for tips and theoretical knowledge.

 

[ProDave]

Self learning hmmm........ did that the hard way 4 years ago the first time I took my Drascombe Longboat out.

I thought I would just jump in and play around just outside of Chichester Harbour entrance I had no idea

No life jacket
No charts, grounded it and bent the rudder
Didn't tell anyone were I was going
Didn't realise about tides (no idea why when tacking I wasn't getting anywhere!)
Half my knots came undone so the sails were flapping off their spars

It goes on but now I am Mr get the knowledge and get safe.

you missed out the READ SOME BOOKS bit. You would have found out a bit about tides and currents and depths and charts and lifejackets and things.

But if you want "misshaps" then on our third trip out, we had a lovely downwind sail, then turned to come back and found we couldn't manage to sail into the wind and into what had blown up into quite a chop. No harm done, we motored back, and knew we still had a lot to learn.