Not another bl***dy windfarm 🤬

[Tradewinds]

There are many sailors who have never sailed out of sight of land, but doing so is part of the experience of going offshore that many of us value in itself. Wind vanes are not inelegant themselves, but even if they were all like the Venus de Milo they would still be there, and intrusive just for that reason. If there are good practical reasons for them, I am happy to accept their presence even if I regret the loss of amenity.

It would be nice to go back to the old days with only a handful of cruising yachts, but concentrating them in marinas is as practical a way of managing them as any. The occasional marina I find less intrusive if anything than creeks occupied by moorings. You can just about walk the length of the Beaulieu river these days, when once it would have been a pleasure to negotiate under sail.

The Orwell gets pretty busy in the summer nowadays. It’s changed a lot since I arrived back in the uk 26 years ago. Still, can’t turn the clock back (unfortunately).

 

[sailorman]

May need to move some waypoints. Especially the one on the N Inner Gabbard (top left corner of existing windfarm) which I like to home in on, coming into the Orwell from Scheveningen /IJmuiden / the Frisians........EDIT Actually, looking on a chart, the Five Estuaries farms don't look too obstructive, if coming in from the NW (as in above scenarios). Looks to be well S of the rhumb line. BUT the North Falls extension seems to obstruct the direct route from Long Sand Head to the Delta or Vlissingen. Glad that I have the time, these days, to sail south! Although the French are busy with offshore windfarms on their Atlantic coast too......
View attachment 203755

PR puff Damn things have ruined southern north sea sailing

 

[sailorman]

Did the same in March 2025 ... bought an electric car in summer because we had so much excess from Apr to September we didn't know what to do with it, added a heat-pump in May and got rid of the gas system, and we're still managing to charge the batteries full by lunch time so we use tumble dryer, washing machine, dishwasher etc. in the afternoon to reduce our export to the minimum. Also have a smart meter and a dynamic tariff and when we have that finally sorted out, then we switch on an AI which uses weather forecast info combined with electricity day-ahead prices so should be able to provide another level of flexibility during early spring/late autumn. We get a feed-in rate of 7 cents, so it's better to use it ourselves, but excess wind energy can be had for negative prices in the winter. We've gone from an energy bill of €300 per month + fuel for the car, to around €90 a month, including standing charges. The car is the wild card, as it is 100% dependent on usage which is not really predictable.i have SVP on the roof , all electric house last FITpayment was £440 , in the bank

 

[stu9000]

I hate the endless lights of these wind farms. Sailing was the last opportunity to experience wilderness. I guess there is a justification for it though, as we move away from oil.

However, I do not understand why wind is always the first choice and not tidal. Endless cubic metres of dense water moving past at 2 knots generates more power than fickle wind. The UK has some of the highest tidal ranges in the world. Why do we not make use of this?

 

[dunedin]

I hate the endless lights of these wind farms. Sailing was the last opportunity to experience wilderness. I guess there is a justification for it though, as we move away from oil.

However, I do not understand why wind is always the first choice and not tidal. Endless cubic metres of dense water moving past at 2 knots generates more power than fickle wind. The UK has some of the highest tidal ranges in the world. Why do we not make use of this?

They have done lots of tests with tidal, including Strangford Lough entrance and Orkney, which have plenty of flow (!) but surprisingly so far not deemed it workable to productionise. Strangford Lough one was removed a few years ago.

PS. Around S England need to be a long way out to “experience wilderness” of full darkness, as shore lights visible a long way out. But if want to avoid wind farm lights just go a bit further offshore or further north. Hardly a good argument to prevent wind farms when could just divert elsewhere when in a boat which moves.

 

[johnalison]

Hardly a good argument to prevent wind farms when could just divert elsewhere when in a boat which moves.

I think that there are many of us boat-owners who believe that the needs of sailors should take precedence over national or international requirements, and I of course am one of them.

 

[potentillaCO32]

They have done lots of tests with tidal, including Strangford Lough entrance and Orkney, which have plenty of flow (!) but surprisingly so far not deemed it workable to productionise. Strangford Lough one was removed a few years ago.

PS. Around S England need to be a long way out to “experience wilderness” of full darkness, as shore lights visible a long way out. But if want to avoid wind farm lights just go a bit further offshore or further north. Hardly a good argument to prevent wind farms when could just divert elsewhere when in a boat which moves.

The barrage at st. Malo on the Rance produces 500 gigawatts per year, so it must be viable in the right location.

Mind you im not sure if that is a lot of electricity. It sounds it.

 

[Momac]

The barrage at st. Malo on the Rance produces 500 gigawatts per year, so it must be viable in the right location.

Mind you im not sure if that is a lot of electricity. It sounds it.

That's 500GWh per year , which is still a lot . Enough for 70,000 homes .

 

[johnalison]

That's 500GWh per year , which is still a lot . Enough for 70,000 homes .

In other words, a few villages. Tidal barrages have local environmental consequences and usually limited lifespan from silting. It would be lovely if there were a simple solution, even some machinery on the Varne bank, but it looks as if other sources are more promising.

 

[PeterWright]

I'm afraid it's hard to get out of sight of wind farms off the east coast of England. From the S Foreland to the Scottish border, you are always within sight of one or more. Heading further east doesn't help much, as the UK wind farms drop over the horizon astern, Netherlands ones appear ahead. Going further north is not possible off the South coast and is rapidly becoming not much help in getting out of sight of wind farms off the West coast of England and Wales.I am less knowledgeable of Scottish waters, but know that they are not without wind farms.

Nonetheless, these modern windmills are a proven source of non despatchable electricity so I understand the need for them to replace fossil fuels, whether you believe that the observed climate change is due to CO2 levels or not - world reserves of fossilmfuels are fast diminishing and are as necessary as a chemical feedsrockto support modern life as they are for energy.

Peter.

 

[johnalison]

I'm afraid it's hard to get out of sight of wind farms off the east coast of England. From the S Foreland to the Scottish border, you are always within sight of one or more. Heading further east doesn't help much, as the UK wind farms drop over the horizon astern, Netherlands ones appear ahead. Going further north is not possible off the South coast and is rapidly becoming not much help in getting out of sight of wind farms off the West coast of England and Wales.I am less knowledgeable of Scottish waters, but know that they are not without wind farms.

Nonetheless, these modern windmills are a proven source of non despatchable electricity so I understand the need for them to replace fossil fuels, whether you believe that the observed climate change is due to CO2 levels or not - world reserves of fossilmfuels are fast diminishing and are as necessary as a chemical feedsrockto support modern life as they are for energy.

Peter.

Certainly. Regardless of the climate situation, it is the nations that manage their energy and water supplies that will survive and succeed.

 

[PeterWright]

Tidal power has many vocal supporters but is a very expensive option to build. The Rance is a prime site, probably matched only by the British Severn Estuary in potential but the high cost of building and the damage to intertidal wetlands as a habitat for wading birds has prevented development of the Severn site. Tidal,power is at least predictable in when it delivers its output but, like windpower, is still non-despatchable - generation will occur when nature wants, not necessarily when it is demandèd. Electricity, without expensive storage arrangements, such as pumped storage, must be generated at the very instant of demand. Even Michael Parkinson, when masterminding electricity privatisation for Thatcher, couldn't get his head round the concept that every time he swtched a 100 W light on or off, a steam valve in some power station opened or closed a little to generate 100 W more or less. Without the control systems that deliver this small miracle, the grid system would become totally unstable, causing frequent nationwide powercuts. Don't imagine that modern battery systems will provide the necessary storage for this function - it would take more than the world's total known resource of Lithium to build enough batteries to permit just the USA to run their grid on wind and solar alone.

If you want to increase the current horrendous rate of increase in the cost of electricity, push harder for more Tidal power generation or, better still invest your pension pot in building a tidal power station.

Peter.

 

[Puffin10032]

Tidal power has many vocal supporters but is a very expensive option to build. The Rance is a prime site, probably matched only by the British Severn Estuary in potential but the high cost of building and the damage to intertidal wetlands as a habitat for wading birds has prevented development of the Severn site. Tidal,power is at least predictable in when it delivers its output but, like windpower, is still non-despatchable - generation will occur when nature wants, not necessarily when it is demandèd. Electricity, without expensive storage arrangements, such as pumped storage, must be generated at the very instant of demand. Even Michael Parkinson, when masterminding electricity privatisation for Thatcher, couldn't get his head round the concept that every time he swtched a 100 W light on or off, a steam valve in some power station opened or closed a little to generate 100 W more or less. Without the control systems that deliver this small miracle, the grid system would become totally unstable, causing frequent nationwide powercuts. Don't imagine that modern battery systems will provide the necessary storage for this function - it would take more than the world's total known resource of Lithium to build enough batteries to permit just the USA to run their grid on wind and solar alone.

If you want to increase the current horrendous rate of increase in the cost of electricity, push harder for more Tidal power generation or, better still invest your pension pot in building a tidal power station.

Peter.

On the subject of batteries, sodium batteries are now entering commercial production. Whilst they can't (yet) match the very, very best Lithium batteries for energy density they're good enough for shorter to medium range vehicles and for general energy storage. They're cheaper that Lithium too - CATL say about 10% of the price Lithium at the cell level although other manufacturing costs and things like shipping costs will be about the same so the end product is probably going to about half that of Lithium.