North Brittany safe havens...are there any?

[Greenheart]

It's raining again, so no painting this week. Time for idle day-dreaming, instead...

...now that it's near the start of the summer when I'll finally get sailing properly... ...I'm naturally dreaming again about loopy cross-Channel adventures in the dinghy.

I've family in France, far down the Biscay coast, and I'm not planning on sailing round to see them, although that thought is interesting. But what I notice, now I come to focus with Googlemaps on the Northern Brittany coast, is how alarmingly studded with rocks the whole place seems to be.

Assuming the nut-case dinghy sailor doesn't sail Ventnor to Cherbourg, but works down the UK coast to, say, Salcombe, then aims to sail 100 miles, roughly due south...

...there scarcely seems to be a single safe landing, without first steering and hoping not to hit a hundred outlying rocks. Easy enough in a motorboat with GPS, but how the heck did sailors and fishermen use this coast before such additions?

The ferry port Roscoff and old port of Paimpol are the only names I'd think of, the latter being alarmingly well defended by rocks. Is there no way in, without GPS?

 

[Dockhead]

The best all-weather, all-tide harbour in N Brittany is Roscoff. The new marina, behind massive sea walls, is a bomb-proof haven.

But you shouldn't freak out about the rocks. You have a chart plotter? Radar? Eyes? The rocks are really not a problem as long as you're not sailing in weather where you might lose control of the vessel, and shouldn't be on such a coast in that kind of weather.

N Brittany has a number of rias or estuaries which provide good shelter in any tide -- notably L'Aber Wrach', but also Tregeuier and Lezardrieux. You can throw an anchor down there in case of need, or proceed up to the rivers to harbour.

I know that chart looks terrifying if you've never been there, but in reality it's not so bad -- just watch the weather and the tide, but you'd do that anyway, wouldn't you?

 

[Talulah]

It's a bit like reading the pilot books for the Channel Islands. Best avoided or they will scare you about demons and dragons. Not nearly so bad once you've done it.
I usually make landfall in North Brittany at St Malo, Isle de Brehat, or L'Aberwrach depending upon the weeks plans.

 

[DJE]

Easy enough in a motorboat with GPS, but how the heck did sailors and fishermen use this coast before such additions?

Lighthouses, beacons, bouys, local knowledge, compass, and the occasional chart I suppose.

 

[Talulah]

Lighthouses, beacons, bouys, local knowledge, compass, and the occasional chart I suppose.

Or it has been known to use a French Road map. But I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[VicS]

It's raining again, so no painting this week. Time for idle day-dreaming, instead...

...now that it's near the start of the summer when I'll finally get sailing properly... ...I'm naturally dreaming again about loopy cross-Channel adventures in the dinghy.

I've family in France, far down the Biscay coast, and I'm not planning on sailing round to see them, although that thought is interesting. But what I notice, now I come to focus with Googlemaps on the Northern Brittany coast, is how alarmingly studded with rocks the whole place seems to be.

Assuming the nut-case dinghy sailor doesn't sail Ventnor to Cherbourg, but works down the UK coast to, say, Salcombe, then aims to sail 100 miles, roughly due south...

...there scarcely seems to be a single safe landing, without first steering and hoping not to hit a hundred outlying rocks. Easy enough in a motorboat with GPS, but how the heck did sailors and fishermen use this coast before such additions?

The ferry port Roscoff and old port of Paimpol are the only names I'd think of, the latter being alarmingly well defended by rocks. Is there no way in, without GPS?

I have visited both Paimpol and the old drying harbour at Roscoff without GPS. The latter a couple of times. We had DECCA last time though.

I dont remember much about the trip to Paimpol but I do remember looking back out of Roscoff at low water at the pinnacles of rock we'd passed through the night previous and wondering "how the hell did we get in here"

Of the two places I think I preferred Roscoff but I think the facilities for yachts have been much improved at Paimpol now and of course there is a new marina at Roscoff although that is some distance from the town.

 

[James_Calvert]

Pilotage - lots of books about it.

Eg from an older edition of the Shell Pilot on the approaches to Treguier:

"By night, the various lighthouses are well charted and will provide good fixes in reasonably visibility.... Your landfall will ideally be at the brightly lit Bs. Crublent (Fl(2)R.6s) red pillar buoy, but you may arrive first at La Jument north cardinal with bell. Leave Bs Crublent to port and shape up on 137 degrees for the Grande Passe. This is easier by night, as the lights are a good deal clearer to see than the notoriously invisible daymarks at 3 miles range. These are: front Port de la Chaine (Oc 4s 12m 11M), a white painted house and rear Ste Antoine (Oc.%.4s34m 15M intensified +/- 3 degrees on 137 degrees) another white house, this time with a red roof.

If you don't spot the transit in the daytime, watch your backbearing on Bs Crublent until you identify the red buoy Le Corbeau (leave to port) and its green starboard hand partner, the Pierre a l'Anglais. You must pass between these, and then continue on 137 degrees, still on the transit, to leave Pen ar Guezec green buoy to starboard, watching your drift all the way."

There's more in this vein until you get into the river proper, where it gets a bit easier, just following the buoyage between the rather pretty shores.

This was the first landfall I made in North Brittany in the '80s, before I had Decca, and it worked.

Rider: mind you, you do have to check whether the words and the charts match up. In this case they didn't quite: there is actually a Pen ar Guezec green beacon (a large conical concrete structure) as well as a Pte Pen ar Guezec green buoy - which was slightly worrying the first time....

 

[LadyInBed]

I agree with all of the above, it looks very foreboding on the charts, but when you are there in the approach channel there's quite a large gap between the rocks you can see, and near HW a good depth over the ones you can't
As for safe havens, don't always expect the marina to be the safest haven, often you can go further up the aber and anchor where you wouldn't know that a hooly was blowing on the coast.

 

[Pleiades]

When arriving in unfamiliar areas I like to have easy full tide access and that drew my little ships to Saint Quay Portrieux - no lock gates, no bar, no torrential river and a nice big marina for easy parking. St.Q.P. is a delightful spot for a family holiday with nice beaches, shops, places to visit, festivals etc.
Pilotage is merely testing, not difficult or too scary - an uncomplicated approach which in NW -W-SW winds should be very enjoyable and satisfying in daylight. I have done it at night and that is perfectly do-able but perhaps not for a first visit. There is a huge tidal range of course so spending a night at anchor on that bit of coast does require meticulous chart work to make sure you don't end up in a puddle.
On the way down or back I have formed an adverse opinion of the Plateau de Barnouic which seems to have a magnetic like attraction to my GRP. Those rocks and I have a low opinion of each other methinks. Give the Plateau a comfortably very wide berth, failing that I have a collection of very bad words which you can shout at em if you do get sucked in too close for comfort.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXQW5

 

[brianhumber]

Decca was never accurate enough for the rocks anyway. The French have second to none navigation aids of towers, lights and buoys, its easy with proper large scale SHOM charts. You are in France so why muck about with copy Admiralty charts or even worse those micky mouse Imray things. I do not and will not have plotters and other instruments of the devil on board so can't comment on the accuracy or otherwise of these.

Brittany Coast is riddled with delightful ports, including anchorages and smaller none marina places to visit. They are generally easy to get and out off so do not be put off, get sailing and get over there.

Brian

 

[Alan ashore]

Dan,
As one of the last generation to have had the satisfaction of making landfalls on that coast before GPS existed, I find it interesting to reflect that:

1) with charts, pilotbooks, compass, binoculars, sextant and patience we had no particular difficulty finding our way to and into most of the numerous havens that, once in, are safe. The first for me was L'Aberwrach, and I would recommend it as by no means difficult (though probably further west than you have in mind).

but

2) that wasn't in a dinghy. If I was up for a dinghy crossing (and I'm not even going to think about whether or not I would be!), then I would rather like to have a couple of dedicated hand-held GPS devices, plus probably an iphone or two (in Lifeproof cases), as well as a few nice waterproof charts. Peering through the bins to decide which of the water towers or steeples is which, then getting a distance off by vertical sextant angle is one thing from the companionway of a yacht......
Of course it's all doable in a dinghy and has been, but I think I'd let the challenge of sailing across be enough, and let the modern toys take some of the strain out of the nav and pilotage.

With or without GPS, you'll find yourself still relying on the mark one eyeball, compass and transits for the entrances and necky little passages between the rocks.

Good luck!

 

[Sandy]

When are you planing to cross in the dingy?

We are planning to go mid July, so if you want a cup of tea and a sandwich mid-channel let is know.

 

[[3889]]

As for safe havens, don't always expect the marina to be the safest haven, often you can go further up the aber and anchor where you wouldn't know that a hooly was blowing on the coast.

Sound advice, as I discovered this weekend just gone once I'd winched myself off the pontoon I was pinned to.

BTW, it is illegal to enter french water in a boat under a certain size - 5 m? I know several people who have attempted to negotiate for permission to cross from Dover in sea kayaks (circa 5m loa) without success. You can swim with a support boat but not cross in a small boat.
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/...4&t=108323&p=721581&hilit=france+channel#wrap

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...d/mcga_-_hm_coastguard_-_the_dover_strait.htm

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for all replies, gentlemen.

Evidently there's every reason not to be scared away from this rocky coast. I really hadn't seriously planned to sail over in the Osprey, but...it could happen!

...if you want a cup of tea and a sandwich mid-channel let us know.

Many thanks for that! If I do make an attempt, I'll actually have a stock of refreshments on board.

...it is illegal to enter french water in a boat under a certain size - 5 m? You can swim with a support boat but not cross in a small boat.

5 meters minimum LOA? That would be most amusing...the Osprey is 5.35m.

 

[LittleSister]

The thing to do is to register your boat as a British ship, by means of the Small Ships Register (SSR). (IIRC the minimum LOA for SSR is 16ft.) Ensure while you're there you show a red ensign, have your SSR number properly marked on the boat, and carry the necessary papers .

When I was looking to take a sea kayak to France this was the way to avoid getting embroiled in French regulations for small craft which, for instance, define very modest distances offshore which each category is allowed.

I would caution against crossing from Salcombe to N. Brittany in a dinghy. Not that it's not achievable, but it is a bloody long way in a small boat, and apart from anything else it will take you quite a few days to recover. (How do I know that?!) When you look at the distances as numbers it may not seem that the crossing is that much more than that from IoW to Cherbourg or Alderney, but I can assure you that the third 30 miles is much tougher than the first, or even second.

Enjoy your dreaming, and, hopefully, the trip.

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks LittleSister, I believe, and I will remember, all of that!

In all seriousness, I've been several miles from land in dinghies before with no problem, in light winds; but the idea of being 40 miles offshore, nervously picking the moment to pass ahead of a great dark ship that's on the horizon but coming up fast...and the huge long 2-meter swells that hide everything in that direction for several seconds in a row...

...exciting to imagine, but makes me pretty windy too! Only because capsizing would be no barrel of fun in a seaway full of mighty traffic, when the dinghy's heavy with kit. :nonchalance:

 

[guernseyman]

...there scarcely seems to be a single safe landing, without first steering and hoping not to hit a hundred outlying rocks. Easy enough in a motorboat with GPS, but how the heck did sailors and fishermen use this coast before such additions?

The ferry port Roscoff and old port of Paimpol are the only names I'd think of, the latter being alarmingly well defended by rocks. Is there no way in, without GPS?

Without GPS you need Malcolm Robson's pilots: four volumes for the French coast, West Normandy, Brittany, Atlantic coast. And an extra volume for the Channel Islands. I have GPS but still use Robson. You can buy them second hand on the internet.

 

[Greenheart]

Without GPS you need Malcolm Robson's pilots: four volumes for the French coast, West Normandy, Brittany, Atlantic coast. And an extra volume for the Channel Islands. I have GPS but still use Robson. You can buy them second hand on the internet.

The reports I've heard of tidal range and speed in the Channel Islands, makes me disinclined to go anywhere near! But thanks, I'll look out for the pilot books.

 

[guernseyman]

The reports I've heard of tidal range and speed in the Channel Islands, makes me disinclined to go anywhere near! But thanks, I'll look out for the pilot books.

Tides in Normandy and Brittany are similar, or worse.

Partly because fog and mist are not uncommon, you should correct course-to-steer for tidal streams.
And pay attention to whether the tides are spring or neap: the difference can be significant even on short coastal passages.

Waves and swell can differ i.e. they can be big or small independently of each other. Before longer passages you should get a forecast of both to assess likely conditions.

 

[doris]

In the early 1940s the Air Sea Rescue service regularly popped into L'Aberach at night with no moon. With no buoys or beacons.......amazing. If they could do that our generation should man up and realise that just about everywhere in N Brittany is safe once you are in. Just don't get caught arriving just too late for the tide, on a lee shore!!!