Norse, stalok or standard compression fittings???

I've got some unbranded swageless terminals on mine that are an absolute nightmare to fit as every strand of wire needs to be individually bent over the cone using a pair of pliers. Note esy with 3/8 7*19! When had some rigging work done, it was cheaper to buy new Norseman's than pay the riggers by the hour to fit the existing ones. Moral of the story, if you're going to go for swageless buy a reputed brand.
 
Have not experienced any problems with STA-LOCK. Availability is the bigger problem. Have failed to find any useful sources (with detailed prices) on the web. I don't like having to phone or email 'for a quote' when all I want is individual item prices so I can make a starting decision.

Vic
 
Not a lot of marine emphasis,more architectural,on their website.
Don't know therefore how insurance cos would handle any subsequent problems?
AFAIK there has never been a failure of a correctly fitted stalok-norseman,but they are more expensive than standard swagings,they will however outlast the rigging wire and be reused with new inner cones fitted.How long do you intend to keep the boat?
 
I'm one of (probably) the few people who have actually re-used Sta Lok terminals. It worked out well and justified using them in the first place. I also a substantial amount by stepping and rigging my own mast.
 
I find that there is quite a difference between the two, which becomes quite important for the larger wire sizes, say above 8 mm.

In the Norseman the wire comes through the female threaded part, whereas in the Sta-lock it is the male. Thus once the cone is in place, pulling on the Norseman type will tend to squeeze the wires together and so long as they are the correct length it is not too difficult to assemble the threaded male part into the sleeve. http://www.navtec.net
With the Sta-lock all the wires have to be forced inside the female thread, quite difficult with stiffer wires. On the larger wires it takes real effort to twist the wire ends together to achieve this. http://riggingonly.com/stalok.htm

Due to a supply cock-up I have Norseman fittings on my upper guard wires and Sta-lock on the lower ones. At 4 mm there is not a great difference between the two, although I still find the Norseman rather easier. Incidentally, not only do I re-use the fittings, I can often re-use the cones as well, although sometimes they fracture when removing them.
 
The problem with Stalok is that they have a very restricted range of fittings that will go in a mast (ie the spoons, Ts etc). Norsman are a bit better but very expensive. Overall the cost of swageless seems to be more than the cost of a swaged fitting swaged onto the wire.

If you are going to keep your boat for a very long time its probably worth going swageless. But since rigging lasts 15 years or so, it has to be a very long time.

And if the swaging is faulty you can (in theory) sue the rigger.
 
Reason I am considering using swageless .....for the lower terminals only....... is so that I can make the rigging to correct lengths myself while the mast is down in order to go into French canals. Otherwise would need to take mast down/up specialy at a cost approaching £200 (Solent). (Idea of numerous trips up the mast to take down 1 stay at a time is not attractive /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Vic
 
Thanks for all that info, very good. My key consideration is really which would be the stronger? The reason I am changing my rigging is because I have no idea how old the rigging is and Pantanius will not insure the masts until I make the rigging new. Good enough reason in itself. However, some of the swages are slightly banana shaped and I am told these are dangerous! are they really so dangerous? or is it that they only look dangerous? This made me think about perhaps Norseman terminals. I like the fact I can use them again although I think the insurance company wouldn't!!! A far as how long will I keep the boat? I don't know, who does? I like my boat but often look longingly at others. I think for perhaps at least five years.

Anymore for anymore??
 
I keep forgetting the silly costs you Solent types have. My mast up / down is £20. Nevertheless, I am going the swaged top swageless bottom route, but its more about my confidence in my measurements than anything else.

I very much doubt that there is a difference in strength. Its likely your rigging was designed over strength for its intended use so its unlikely to fail through tensile load / pulling apart if it is properly made.

My impression is that when rigs fail is that the wire fails by fatigue where it enters the fitting. I dont know if there is any difference between the two methods but I suspect not. Having said that I once did find a crack in the swaged fitting on one of my shrouds. Its good practise to carefully inspect the rigging every year anyway.

I
 
Thanks chaps. If anyone is still reading, is there a difference in strength between swageless and swaged fittings? I read that swageless are perhaps only 90% of the strength of swaged. ???? Although to me, the swageless appear to be less likely to fail as the more pull there is, the more they would seem to lock. Dunno.
 
All comments I have ever seen have suggested that a *properly made* swageless fitting (Norseman or Sta-Lock) is, if anything, stronger that a typical swage.

The quality of a swage will be down to the skill/care of the operator and the condition of the swaging machine. The quality of a swageless will again be down to the operator, but presumably YOU!

FWIW, my (8mm) forestay is Sta-Lok at the bottom (fitted by me) and never given any trouble.....but neither have any of my swage fittings. Incidentally, all are very slightly 'banana' shape' and are 21yrs old. (perhaps why I am interested in the subject!).

I have looked for, without success, any possibility of hiring a swage machine because I do prefer to trust my own work.... .... maybe a business opportunity /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Vic
 
I don't think there is much to choose between them. Very many forestays with some form of roller reefing/furling have a swageless fitting beneath the drum. As the forestay carries pretty much the highest load of any stay this speaks for itself.
 
If you are going to go with a mechanical fitting, check out Haynes marine eyes, similar to stalock and norseman, but stronger and totally reusable, the cone and everything, they also have this rad outer ring inside that has a groove for each wire in the stay so there is no chance of the wires falling into the slots in the cone. This is a problem with the other swageless fittings. By far these are the best I have found.
 
I did a "google" search on Haynes marine and Haynes marine eyes and didn't come up with anything, do you have a web site address? I too have rigging issues coming up although my current feeling is that reusable is too expensive as I suspect I am likely to change boat inside 10 years and it's not as if you can take them with you!
 
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