Normal / Good Practice, Steps and Procedure to Buying a Yacht....

[thvoyager]

There is a multitude of paragraphs that could be written on the title above to buying a sailing yacht, but in the name of keeping this thread clean and clear:

Let's say I go to see a selling broker, he is selling a yacht on behalf of his client I have quite taken the fancy to. My initial impression is good as I am naive and vulnerable, and I say "I LOVE IT I WILL TAKE IT..."

But I stop myself before I say that and decide to do this properly.

In what order and what should be said:

Commission a survey
Or no survey going off of my naive assumption that the yacht is a world class racer / cruiser / liveaboard and make some dumb offer
My first offer
My final offer post survey

In other words, on the first date, is it best to reserve my enthusiasm should it arise and consult a surveyor before I start getting excited and talking figures or should I just with a poker face say a figure, walk away and then consult a surveyor to go in?

Or just tell me I don't know what I am doing and tell me how to do it.

 

[RJJ]

1. Do homework on the type(s) of boat you fancy. Compare boats online, join class association, try to find an owner who might give you some advice.
2. Speak to a surveyor and get any advice on watch outs and fair price plus their own pricing/credentials. Let them know when you are making an offer.
3. Make offer and negotiate to agreement.
4. Sign contract and pay deposit.
5. Get survey done typically in 2 weeks
6. Agree adjustments based on survey. Or walk away.
7. Either complete or get deposit back, minus cost of restoring her to as-was condition.


You are responsible for doing your homework before you make an offer. There is no need to gush enthusiasm to the broker but do tell them what you like and don't like.

It's on you to know what the "watch outs" are on any particular boat. E.g. how much to allow for new standing rigging and new sails; therefore how much to price in of those items are nearly-new vs needing immediate replacement. The list is long....seacocks, sails, engine hours and servicing, saildrive gaiter, rudder bearings, running and standing rigging, electronics, anchor and chain....those items can come to 30k on a 45 foot yacht. The more questions you ask pre offer, the more reasonably you know what your offer should be. Don't worry about wasting the broker or sellers time, it's their job. By asking detailed questions you avoid misunderstanding later and you present yourself as serious.

You should ideally choose a surveyor before making an offer and get their quick view on the boat. They will have an idea of a fair price and give you some tips to watch for on your viewing and offer. But there's only so much time they will give you unpaid. A couple of phone calls is fine. The surveyor's bread and butter is not the visible stuff nor the disclosed matters, if any, it's the important stuff.

You are unlikely to be allowed to do survey without an accepted offer, contract and deposit. That's because a boat survey is more intrusive than a house survey. It's on you to return the boat to pre-survey state should the sale fall through, and that can only be enforced if you paid a deposit.

Once you have made your offer and its accepted you will be expected to get your survey done in a short time. Maybe 2 weeks? And pay a deposit which is in theory non refundable.

You should not expect to renegotiate post-survey unless on reasonable grounds. You can ask for stuff to get fixed or you can walk away, but your deposit can be used to repair any investigation made by the surveyor. Almost certainly that will include re-antifouling, maybe launch-relaunch fees. So the cost of a survey is at least several hundred pounds to you and that effectively is the sellers protection against time wasters.

In practice it's very hard for the seller to keep your whole deposit if you pull out. No survey is perfect and you can cite a loose bolt. But you will lose the expense of returning the boat to as-was condition.

If you ask for unreasonable reduction post survey the seller is likely to be livid. Maybe he caves. Maybe not.

 

[Tranona]

There is a multitude of paragraphs that could be written on the title above to buying a sailing yacht, but in the name of keeping this thread clean and clear:

Let's say I go to see a selling broker, he is selling a yacht on behalf of his client I have quite taken the fancy to. My initial impression is good as I am naive and vulnerable, and I say "I LOVE IT I WILL TAKE IT..."

But I stop myself before I say that and decide to do this properly.

In what order and what should be said:

Commission a survey
Or no survey going off of my naive assumption that the yacht is a world class racer / cruiser / liveaboard and make some dumb offer
My first offer
My final offer post survey

In other words, on the first date, is it best to reserve my enthusiasm should it arise and consult a surveyor before I start getting excited and talking figures or should I just with a poker face say a figure, walk away and then consult a surveyor to go in?

Or just tell me I don't know what I am doing and tell me how to do it.

Have you bought the RYA book I suggested on one of your other threads rya.org.uk/shop/p/buying-and-maintenance/rya-boat-buyers-handbook-ebook

This will talk you through the process.

However it will not help you decide on when you put your offer in other than you need to do your homework to determine if what is on offer suits your needs and you are prepared to pay the amount you are offering. It is no different from buying any other product. The key thing to remember is that you are buying somebody else's personal property and what you see is what you get with no comeback once you have bought it. Of you have never owned a boat or do not have any experience of actually boating in the way that you expect after buying the boat this is daunting - and why so many such purchases, particularly "dream life style" ones go wrong.

Hence the common advice to buy a simple boat of a popular type that you can sail straight away, get a season or 2 experience then start looking for your dream boat. You may well find by then you have the confidence to know what you want and when to make your offer. The process then is straightforward - survey with a surveyor who agrees to you being there so that he can explain as he goes along, renegotiation dependent on what the survey shows up and completion (or withdrawal in extreme cases)

 

[mrming]

Someone who knows what they’re looking at can tell a lot from the photos without even visiting the boat. So perhaps join a local yacht club and befriend some experienced boat owners who can help look over ads with you. Even better, go sailing with those owners and ask them about the kind of jobs they have to do on their boats.

It’s also worth searching for forum threads for specific models you’re interested in as owners often post their problems, looking for advice. If enough of a particular yacht were sold then owners will often have posted their issues online.

For Moody and Westerly yachts (and likely others) there are owners associations you can join which are very helpful. In the case of Westerly at least, most models have a “boat line” volunteer who will give you buying advice (at your own risk).

Some advice in addition to that given above:
- Learn the common issues that affect all GRP yachts (some listed above).
- Learn the specific issues that affect manufacturers and models you might be interested in (e.g. droopy vinyl headlining affects a number of brands from the 80s / early 90s).
- Keep an open mind as to the model of boat you want. Ideally you want to find a seller who fastidiously maintained their yacht. These are out there but fixating on one or two models will lessen your chances of finding one.
- Watch out for owners retiring from sailing as they may have started to let things go, knowing they wouldn’t be sailing forever.
- Don’t take too positive an attitude when looking at boats, be critical and look for things that are obviously wrong. If it looks neglected in any way the chances are there are plenty more issues awaiting the surveyor.
- The water should be on the outside, not the inside. If there is water in the bilges be very careful as it can come from a wide range of places and it can be hard to find out where immediately.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[thvoyager]

Thanks all for great advice, I took all your notes on board, except the buying of the ebook, I do have many other sources available too.
I have viewed a boat recently and the boat looks much better than the previous 2.
I now need to find my own surveyor (don't want to use one suggested to me from seller).
How does one find a reputable surveyor, do they drink in local pubs or do I have to travel up high mountains to find one?

 

[Tranona]

This ydsa.co.uk/find/surveyors/ is a good start. The major professional body in the UK (and also many international members). This iims.org.uk is the other, more recent and smaller but similarly respectable. Members of either are acceptable to insurers and both require professional indemnity insurance for their members.

 

[Caer Urfa]

You can find a surveyor on the SCMS website SCMS - A MCA Appointed Certifying Authority or Log in to their Facebook site
I am a surveyor and may be able to help