"Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

[sarabande]

"Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

I am of the persuasion that a two anchor set-up is prudent for normal sailing.

One modern, light weight, design to the boat's length and displacement for day-to-day use, and an older, heavier but proven effective design for a boat 25% longer and heavier for windy conditions.

The debate with a valued and experienced colleague is over how the bigger anchor is used. I have two choices:-

1 a "serial" setup for a quick change system using a shackle or maillon rapide and the normal anchor chain

2 a "parallel" setup, using a separate, heavier, chain to the big anchor, and stowing that below in the expectation that one can foresee when it might be needed, and then retrieve it from the stowage place.

The details of which anchors, and chain sizes, are irrelevant to the philosophical and practical challenges of the decision. A serial setup would need the normal anchor to be retrieved from the bow, and swapped with the big anchor. The parallel one needs the heavy weather anchor to be retrieved from the bilge area, and then set up on deck.

One remote risk is that of losing the normal anchor and chain through a lockup on the sea bed. This would prevent the serial deployment of the big anchor, whereas a parallel setup would mitigate the risk and yield a resilient solution.

A 'lunch hook' / kedge is also on board.


Views and comments sought to identify flaws and alternatives, please.

 

[pmagowan]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

I don't follow. My philosophy is to have an anchor at the bow ready to deploy. It is the main anchor and should be the best for the job. I favour a 'new generation' spade/Rocna type due to their performance. This anchor should be able to cope with all conditions as long as the sea bed is a suitable substrate. Spare anchors are for alternative substrates. I would favour a fortress style and a fishermans based on covering the widest range of sea beds. The fortress makes a good kedge also and I suppose you could deploy more than one at once if you were in trouble. I have only had to deploy two anchors when on a charter because the main bower was insufficient in a gale. I see no benefit in holding back a 'heavy duty' anchor in reserve. I would put out more chain.

 

[GHA]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Views and comments sought to identify flaws and alternatives, please.

From a cruising perspective, my choice is for a good biggish oversize new gen on the bow ready to go plus a fortress kedge & a spare bower. Should cope with most eventualities.

I really like the idea of tandem, but from people who have given it a good go it just doesn't really work.

Vee twin might have a use once in a while if swinging room is limited but the worry is at 3am when it really gets bad and you need to do a runner you have a lot of gear to sort out and real potential for a big spagetti. Anyway, the choice is still there.

So big anchor of a good design, good snubber and a riding sail. I will have a play with a new riding sail and maybe some sort of small sea anchor to slow the boat down in gusty conditions at some point soon hopefully (hopefully through choice ).
Those choices are assuming an electric windlass, manual or none might change things a bit. All imho.

No doubt there will be many differing opinions in this one...

 

[lw395]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Depends how and where you sail.
South Coast, I'd be happy with a light anchor and lightweight gear, as it would be way out of the norm to sit out a gale on the hook.
Of course if your boat is big and your crew not large, then getting a big anchor on deck is a different proposition to a fit race crew on a medium sized boat.

Where there are less harbours and more anchorages, I'd think differently.

 

[jonjo]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Some wonky thinking here OP as I will illustrate through the following daft proposal.

I am of the persuasion a yacht should carry a light and a heavy weather mainsail. The light mainsail should have a lighter cloth and obviously no reef points are needed because when the going gets tough the heavy mainsail will be bent on and hoisted.

As per post #4 it is diffiult to offer good advice without first knowing the size of yacht, cruising area, age/fitness of the skipper and the number of resting rugby front-row forwards retained onboard as paid hands. For example all this anchor swapping milarky would be difficult on the fordeck of the average 33 footer but an early generation Moody 33 with its deep fordeck work-pit makes the OP proposal tenable.

 

[GrahamM376]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Our main anchor, Manson Supreme is our heaviest (5kg over theoretical weight for the boat) and is also the everyday anchor. Have a Fortress as kedge, a 50lb fisherman (never used) and a small fisherman, plus the old Harborfast CQR lookalike. Don't see the sense in having to change from light to heavy anchor/tackle when the wind kicks up.

 

[GrahamM376]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

I really like the idea of tandem, but from people who have given it a good go it just doesn't really work.

We never trusted the old CQR lookalike it dragged so often so, if expecting brisk wind, used to shackle the Fortress to the tripping eye and lay them in tandem. Never dragged but a pain to retrieve as the main anchor would be on the roller and then had to reach down and haul the Fortress and chain by hand.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

While we had another anchor we never used it and always used the one main bow anchor (in the spirit of this thread will not say which one)for anchoring, whether it was windy or not or forecast to be windy or not. On more than one occasion we experienced bug winds in the middle of the night that were not forecast. Also you can get freak weather, such as what happened in Vliho bay. Seems a little silly to leave your best anchor in the locker.

 

[lw395]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

....... Seems a little silly to leave your best anchor in the locker.

For me, it would often seem silly to struggle with a great heavy storm anchor when I'm only stopping for lunch.
The only times I've run for cover due to unforecast weather being more than I'd trust a light anchor with, I think I'd have been right to leave whatever anchor I'd had.
I've run from an anchorage at Swanage when the wind turned E and I've run from a mooring of Lyme Regis when it went south. I trusted the mooring well enough, but it was not my idea of a holiday!
I guess there is a grey scale, my idea of a lightish anchor that I can handily carry might not be yours or your boat might be bigger.
If you don't anchor much, why slow your boat down with weight in the bow until you need it?

 

[duncan99210]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

The main anchor's purpose in life is to hold the boat in all but the worst conditions. Therefore it and the gear associated with it should be sized to hold the boat in most circumstances. Where an exceptional set of conditions is forecast, then it would be sensible to deploy the kedge anchor in a 'v' with the bower to provide some additional holding capacity should things go awry.
To my mind there's little point in having some sort of hierarchy of anchors on board, one for lunch, another for overnight and so on. Keep it simple: bower to do the business, kedge as a spare and extra holding power if it all goes to rats.

 

[GrahamM376]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

If you don't anchor much, why slow your boat down with weight in the bow until you need it?

5 - 10kg extra isn't going to make much difference in trim except in very small light boats. Big difference in attitude between those who just venture out to anchor for the occasional night when conditions are calm and, those who spend most of their time on anchor without a nearby marina to bolt for when it gets lively.

As Jordanbasset says, big winds can spring up at night without being forecast so why take the chance.

 

[dunedin]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

As ever a lot depends on many other factors - including
(A) size of boat and therefore weight of gear involved
(B) does the boat have an electric windlass, in which case no real problem using a biggish anchor as the lunch hook
(C) strength of crew - for lugging around spare anchors and ground tackle

For me all these factors lead to definitely wanting the biggest anchor on the bow roller and windlass.
Lugging anchors around not great for the back

 

[prv]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

I can perhaps see an argument for a light and a heavy anchor if you don't have a windlass. Under those circumstances, though, I think I'd go for a very light "lunch hook" alongside a main bower sized for all forseeable conditions, rather than a "probably ok" and an "oh bugger, I'm dragging".

If you do have an electric windlass, then the need goes away. You don't have to press the button harder for a heavier anchor

Windlass or no, the idea of deliberately choosing an inferior design (albeit a little heavier) for your last-ditch anchor seems puzzling.

Pete

 

[lw395]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

5 - 10kg extra isn't going to make much difference in trim except in very small light boats. Big difference in attitude between those who just venture out to anchor for the occasional night when conditions are calm and, those who spend most of their time on anchor without a nearby marina to bolt for when it gets lively.

As Jordanbasset says, big winds can spring up at night without being forecast so why take the chance.

As any racer will tell you, it's not about trim, it's about the inertia of the mass in the bow making you hit every wave harder.
It's also not just a few kg of anchor, it's the chain. And the windlass that makes having the heavy stuff bearable on a sunny day. And the extra battery for said windlass.
Just taking a marginally sized cqr and a RORC minimum length of chain out of the bow of my last boat, you could feel the difference as soon as you left Lake Solent.

Completely agree that if running for more shelter is not an option, and running to sea is not favoured either, then you need to be prepared to deploy heavy enough tackle.
Whether that means you have it in the bow 365 days a year or have it under the cabin sole until needed is something to be thought about.
If you're spec'ing a high end, medium-heavy boat for short handed work in rugged surroundings, I'm sure you don't need to think too long!

 

[NormanS]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Possibly with a small boat without an anchor windlass, there would be a temptation to use a light anchor at times, but
I have an electric anchor windlass, so there is no point at all in my using a light anchor, as it is no extra bother to raise my normal 20kg anchor. I also carry two other anchors, of different designs, but of the same weight. I occasionally deploy a second anchor in a Vee. When I lay out a second anchor, I normally rig a tripping line and buoy on it, partly to give me an idea where it is, and crucially so that if necessary, I can slip it and only have to lift the one anchor.

So, although I might swap anchors to suit the type of seabed, I certainly wouldn't fit a lighter anchor, just because at the time, it was calm.

 

[sarabande]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Just to clarify.

The boat has at present (and for the past few years) a good strong chain and and a good simple anchor, both of which are certainly OK for the length and displacement.

I am changing to a lighter, modern generation anchor primarily because of the weight reduction of handling and stowage on the bow, but also because the MG anchor has a performance 'envelope' quite a lot better than the good old simple one.

Having one single anchor to cope with all conditions of weather and seabed is unrealistic, a single point of failure, and IMHO poor seamanship. My subsequent thoughts related therefore to a contingency plan of being able to lay as a substitute or in conjunction a much larger anchor designed for a boat 25% bigger ( a factor I considered adequate ). That decision then led to my original question.

I am now convinced that the heavy weather anchor will be best with its own chain, mainly to ensure that the loss - for whatever reason - of the normal anchor and chain does not leave the boat bereft of a means of attaching itself safely to the seabed.

I am NOT using a 'lightweight' anchor as the normal one; the make and design and size are for a boat slightly bigger. Comparisons with having two mainsails are, with respect invalid. It is more like having a normal mainsail, and a storm trysail: they are different sails for very different conditions.


Team comments about tandem deployment, and trip lines and buoys are good reminders to practice those techniques. Thanks.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

5 - 10kg extra isn't going to make much difference in trim except in very small light boats. Big difference in attitude between those who just venture out to anchor for the occasional night when conditions are calm and, those who spend most of their time on anchor without a nearby marina to bolt for when it gets lively.

As Jordanbasset says, big winds can spring up at night without being forecast so why take the chance.

As ever a lot depends on many other factors - including
(A) size of boat and therefore weight of gear involved
(B) does the boat have an electric windlass, in which case no real problem using a biggish anchor as the lunch hook
(C) strength of crew - for lugging around spare anchors and ground tackle

For me all these factors lead to definitely wanting the biggest anchor on the bow roller and windlass.
Lugging anchors around not great for the back

I can perhaps see an argument for a light and a heavy anchor if you don't have a windlass. Under those circumstances, though, I think I'd go for a very light "lunch hook" alongside a main bower sized for all forseeable conditions, rather than a "probably ok" and an "oh bugger, I'm dragging".

If you do have an electric windlass, then the need goes away. You don't have to press the button harder for a heavier anchor

Windlass or no, the idea of deliberately choosing an inferior design (albeit a little heavier) for your last-ditch anchor seems puzzling.

Pete

Possibly with a small boat without an anchor windlass, there would be a temptation to use a light anchor at times, but
I have an electric anchor windlass, so there is no point at all in my using a light anchor, as it is no extra bother to raise my normal 20kg anchor. I also carry two other anchors, of different designs, but of the same weight. I occasionally deploy a second anchor in a Vee. When I lay out a second anchor, I normally rig a tripping line and buoy on it, partly to give me an idea where it is, and crucially so that if necessary, I can slip it and only have to lift the one anchor.

So, although I might swap anchors to suit the type of seabed, I certainly wouldn't fit a lighter anchor, just because at the time, it was calm.

Agree with all of that. For the record I did have another anchor which I could have deployed but never felt the need to despite some pretty rough conditions on occasions. To sleep well I need confidence in my anchor and if I did not have that confidence I would replace it with one I felt confidence in.

 

[GHA]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

We never trusted the old CQR lookalike it dragged so often so, if expecting brisk wind, used to shackle the Fortress to the tripping eye and lay them in tandem. Never dragged but a pain to retrieve as the main anchor would be on the roller and then had to reach down and haul the Fortress and chain by hand.

Maybe the fortress is just a good anchor on its own

 

[NormanS]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

Having one single anchor to cope with all conditions of weather and seabed is unrealistic, a single point of failure, and IMHO poor seamanship.

I am now convinced that the heavy weather anchor will be best with its own chain, mainly to ensure that the loss - for whatever reason - of the normal anchor and chain does not leave the boat bereft of a means of attaching itself safely to the seabed.

I don't see your problem. You have decided, like most experienced yachtsmen, that having only one anchor (and rode) is unsatisfactory, and so like others you carry more than one adequate anchor and rode. Problem solved. For the avoidance of doubt, my normal bower anchor is on all chain, second and/or third anchors are on mixed rodes of part chain, part nylon. (One is actually a stretchy climbing rope).

 

[John the kiwi]

Re: "Normal" and "Heavy Duty" anchoring. Change the anchor, or another set of kit ?

My own boat is only 26 ft and i only do occasional multi-day trips, but being at anchor in a blow is a great equaliser!
I have a main anchor and a reserve anchor equivalent to the main anchor with a suitable length of nylon rope. No powered winch though and none is needed.
I sometimes use the reserve as a stern anchor simply to stop the boat doing circles in tideless anchorages.
The reserve is heavy and awkward to deploy for this so i am planning to buy a small lightweight anchor and lightweight line for the job. The loads for this duty are tiny compared with main anchor, and it may be an advantage if it did drag when an unexpected big blow comes through from astern.
The small anchor would also be handy for fishing and lunch stops where one is on deck and dragging is at worst inconvenient.
Food for thought?