No Insurance Cover Dehumidifiers For Fire Risk on Boats?

[CLB]

There's a video "promoting" the DryBoat dehumidifier here:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/you-would-leave-your-toaster-home-unattended-so-why-martin-gray/
I came across it in the LinkedIn public profile of:

Wouldn't it be hugely ironic if BoatyGuy were Martin Gray!
Are you, Guy?

But what if he isnt? Are you happy with yourself for hounding him off the site based on your own hunch?

 

[RupertW]

But what if he isnt? Are you happy with yourself for hounding him off the site based on your own hunch?

I don't think he was the only one and the moderator seemed quite interested in the answer.

All he had to do was say he had no connection rather than wandering round the answer.

 

[A1Sailor]

Take a look at this article on home dehumidifiers.. pretty frightening https://youtu.be/w82980oDR4w

Manufacturers can lie and Meaco are not a manufacturer. they seem to be an importer of chinese goods. Can find their models all over the web. Even B&Q have units on recall for fire...

On this we are agreed. I too would be concerned about stuff manufactured in China.

Ecor Pro B.V.
Director
Company Name Ecor Pro B.V.
Dates Employed Sep 2009 – Present Employment Duration 8 yrs 4 mos
Location Amsterdam, Netherlands

Manufacturing in Turkey and China electrical goods for the home and for commercial use. Sold to distributors, hire centres & retailers worldwide.
Products designed in the UK by our dedicated design team with 80% of goods own branded for customers.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-gray-46527715/

I, too, would have serious concerns about stuff manufactured in China.:ambivalence:

Above is the Ecor Pro production line. Maybe you should send your dehumidifier back...

 

[A1Sailor]

But what if he isnt? Are you happy with yourself for hounding him off the site based on your own hunch?

If he isn't then I owe him a huge apology and a virtual beer or two. Time will tell...

 

[A1Sailor]

And just to clear the matter (because subtle doesn't work with A1Sailor) I'm a Tree Surgeon with an 8 year old Beneteau Oceanis 43 who wont be returning to this site.

Sorry - missed this in the flurry of posts.
Thanks for confirming that you are a yachtsman (or yachtsperson?) like me.

 

[[70521]]

I've been thinking rare I know. When we lived in Orkney we used to cut peat. Now peat when it is dug out of the ground is rather soggy and needs to be dried before placing on the fire on a cold winters night before settling down to your favorite glass of uisge beatha (whisky). The peat was left to dry by the side of the house with a roof to cover it, no dehumidifier there. As many will know Orkney's climate is described as "cool temperate", personally I'd describe it as wet, windy and cold.

I'm scratching my head, how wet do people's boats get that they need to heaters and dehumidifiers to dry them out? Am I being too fussy by insisting that if you are in oilies you don't pass the galley/nav station?

When using a dehumidifier/heater are all the vents sealed and what happens when cold damp air rushes in when you come on-board to check/work on the boat?

 

[RupertW]

I've been thinking rare I know. When we lived in Orkney we used to cut peat. Now peat when it is dug out of the ground is rather soggy and needs to be dried before placing on the fire on a cold winters night before settling down to your favorite glass of uisge beatha (whisky). The peat was left to dry by the side of the house with a roof to cover it, no dehumidifier there. As many will know Orkney's climate is described as "cool temperate", personally I'd describe it as wet, windy and cold.

I'm scratching my head, how wet do people's boats get that they need to heaters and dehumidifiers to dry them out? Am I being too fussy by insisting that if you are in oilies you don't pass the galley/nav station?

When using a dehumidifier/heater are all the vents sealed and what happens when cold damp air rushes in when you come on-board to check/work on the boat?

Peat couldn't be any dryer than the air around it and cool air holds less water than warm so that might help.

But why do houses and boats now need dehumidifiers? I remember as a child that most houses were either cold, or very steamy and a bit smelly. So either ventilated or closed up with a lot more boiling food than now.

In the past I would never have left duvets and towels and clothes on board over winter or even between trips and I always expected that familiar and welcome, 'boat smell' when opening the boat. Now it's the opposite - I expect a dry fresh atmosphere with a display showing me 60 percent or less humidity. I expect that to rise rapidly when the damp air comes in , we cook a meal or whatever then drop again as ventilation, heat and/or dehumidifier kicks in at a higher fan level than i would leave it remotely.

 

[[70521]]

Peat couldn't be any dryer than the air around it and cool air holds less water than warm so that might help.

But why do houses and boats now need dehumidifiers? I remember as a child that most houses were either cold, or very steamy and a bit smelly. So either ventilated or closed up with a lot more boiling food than now.

In the past I would never have left duvets and towels and clothes on board over winter or even between trips and I always expected that familiar and welcome, 'boat smell' when opening the boat. Now it's the opposite - I expect a dry fresh atmosphere with a display showing me 60 percent or less humidity. I expect that to rise rapidly when the damp air comes in , we cook a meal or whatever then drop again as ventilation, heat and/or dehumidifier kicks in at a higher fan level than i would leave it remotely.

Thanks RupertW an interesting post.

Oddly the peat was a lot drier than the surrounding air.

I wonder if the change in use of humidifiers is the a result of different way we heat our houses no coal fires and lots of central heating.

I'll happily leave the skippers who use humidifiers to do so, while preferring natural ventilation myself.

 

[doug748]

Thanks RupertW an interesting post.

Oddly the peat was a lot drier than the surrounding air.

I wonder if the change in use of humidifiers is the a result of different way we heat our houses no coal fires and lots of central heating.

I'll happily leave the skippers who use humidifiers to do so, while preferring natural ventilation myself.

Exactly.
Some folk just like black and white opinions. Dehumidifiers are fine with a number of distinct drawbacks, the same can be said of the alternatives.

The moisture content of air is not hugely different in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK, generally speaking it varies between 70 - 90 and a bit %, winter and summer, across the Islands. The westerly facing, coastal areas being at the top of the scale. In desert areas the level only goes down to c25%, unless you seek out exceptional areas.

I mentioned in another thread that timber is dried in the UK, outside, down to a moisture level well below 20%. Just like your peat. The levels of water in air are not comparable to the measured levels in timber, peat or the inside of boats For example, in 80% relative humidity wood will settle at c15% moisture content; about the level you would put into a domestic home not warmed regularly by central heating.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But why do houses and boats now need dehumidifiers?

In the case of houses it's the advent of double glazing and consequently poorer ventilation. I'm keeping an eye on a friend's house at the moment, while it awaits major building work. It has been unoccupied for almost two years, but with two smallish windows left open it is completely bone dry inside - not a hint of damp, mildew or mustiness. All furnishings are still there.

My boat has a louvred ventilator in the washboards, a forehatch which stays permanently one notch up and a mushroom ventilator. That seems to get enough of a draught through to keep her bone dry inside, though I am not sure I would leave wet towels there in winter ... in summer we dry them under the sprayhood.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The moisture content of air is not hugely different in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK, generally speaking it varies between 70 - 90 and a bit %, winter and summer, across the Islands.

Those will be relative humidity levels, though. There is a heck of a lot more water in 23o[/sub]C summer air than there is in 4^oC winter air when the relative humidity is the same.

The levels of water in air are not comparable to the measured levels in timber, peat or the inside of boats For example, in 80% relative humidity wood will settle at c15% moisture content; about the level you would put into a domestic home not warmed regularly by central heating.

Absolutely. Mass transfer (evaporation) is complicated stuff,

 

[jfm]

There's something about yachtsman that makes some of them prone to inventing rules for themselves and trying to convince others to follow them. I've never come across it amongst any other group of people (except maybe local councillors). I've never had rules on de-humidifiers mentioned by any insurance company, and I read the small print. I've never heard of a claim being rejected because a de-humidifier was used.

+1 to that.

There was a serious fire caused by a dehumidifier on a princess motor yacht owned by regular poster and very nice guy on the mobo forum called mjf. It was about a year ago and he made a detailed post about it. Lots of interior damage but got repaired. He was on board - it was a quite scary story. He has a long career in merchant navy shipping/captaining so he knows his onions too

As regards A1sailor "hounding boatyguy off ybw forums", fwiw I must say I support A1sailor 100%. His question was reasonable imho and he gave plenty of opportunity to boatyguy to confirm things. Boatyguy's dodging of the question was very apparent. Sure, plenty of people would choose not to question a poster in a boaytguy scenario but that doesn't mean that those who do ask such things and push back at question dodgers are unreasonable. Boatyguy wasn't hounded; he chose to leave. All imho.

 

[sarabande]

Does anyone have direct experience or any performance indicators of the Ecor dehumidifiers, or how/why they are likely to be less of a fire hazard than makes with which the forum is more familiar ?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Slightly odd thing to say but I think the product is from holland... My Dutch extends to Edam, Tulip & well thats about it... so hope that answers your question A1Sailor. Its not rocket science... just put in "Boat Dehumidifier" into google and it came up on an advert. cost £599. Nice little movie there that convinced me. The smaller one is £100 quid less but I went for more expensive stainless version as I may want to put it into the vent system and it can blow out dry air into the vents I hope and I got stainless because as I'm coastal based. I agree with JumbleDuck. If it looks good trust it. if it looks rubbish then it probably will be. I dont even leave the christmas lights on unattended so Im safety minded. Ill let you know if this box floats or sinks but only after my hands thaw out. I work outside and its freezing out there.

In an earlier post you rubished Maeco by saying they don't manufacture dehumidifiers, I can find nothing to support that statement. And now you have bought a product costing £599, a huge amount for a dehumidifier, and said you found it through a Google search. I've tried that, no sign on the first few pages of the product you've bought, either adverts or listings. All your 12 posts have been on this thread. Very strange............................

 

[JumbleDuck]

And now you have bought a product costing £599, a huge amount for a dehumidifier ...

My Mitsubishi MJ-E20BG cost me £430, which is a lot but also gets you an absolutely top-quality piece of kit, designed to run for years. I wonder what the extra £169 gets you.

 

[sarabande]

Price down to £380 here, so an even greater gap to Ecorpro.

http://www.dry-it-out.com/mitsubishi-MJ-E20BG-E1-dehumidifier

Plus the Mitsy has a Photo-catalytic washable Anti-Bacterial Filter. wow !


I've emailed EcorPro asking for details of what makes their machine better/safer. It will be interesting to see a reply.

I also note that they say 80% of their (Chinese) production is for other manufacturers...

 

[lpdsn]

My Mitsubishi MJ-E20BG cost me £430, which is a lot but also gets you an absolutely top-quality piece of kit, designed to run for years. I wonder what the extra £169 gets you.

So what is it that you think justifies the price differential over a typical domestic fridge/freezer, given that the core gubbins is pretty similar? I happily leave said fridge/freezer on 24 X 7, even when away on holiday, at work, away on the boat etc. My de-humidifier doesn't even have a light that comes on when I open the door.

 

[A1Sailor]

I've emailed EcorPro asking for details of what makes their machine better/safer. It will be interesting to see a reply.

I also note that they say 90% of their (Chinese) production is for other manufacturers...

Do let us know how you get on. The remaining 10% is presumably in Turkey.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So what is it that you think justifies the price differential over a typical domestic fridge/freezer, given that the core gubbins is pretty similar? I happily leave said fridge/freezer on 24 X 7, even when away on holiday, at work, away on the boat etc. My de-humidifier doesn't even have a light that comes on when I open the door.

Unlike my fridge the dehumidifier has a fan, an oscillating output louvre, a humidity sensor and a pretty sophisticated control system. It's also fitted into a much smaller package, but of course it doesn't have shelves or insulations. Overall it's about the same price as a good quality fridge (Bosch, Miele, AEG) which seems about right.

 

[lpdsn]

Unlike my fridge the dehumidifier has a fan, an oscillating output louvre, a humidity sensor and a pretty sophisticated control system. It's also fitted into a much smaller package, but of course it doesn't have shelves or insulations. Overall it's about the same price as a good quality fridge (Bosch, Miele, AEG) which seems about right.

OK, although I'm very doubtful about the 'much smaller package'. The working parts of fridges don't take up much space at all these days. And they too have a decent control system.

It still doesn't convince me that you must have a top-end de-humidifier to be safe when the majority of fridge freezers aren't top-end and are perfectly safe.