nmea 2000

[PaulGooch]

I am ignorant of this, but I dont think transducers (non Nmea anyway) are interchangeable between plotter manufacturers. IE the current Raymarine transducer wont work with the Garmin plotter.
In fact since the old transducer isnt Nmea 2000, it wont connect to the Garmin Nmea 2000 for sure.
Possibly the Garmin converter might work, but I suspect only with Airmar/Garmin pre Nmea 2000 transducers- ie, not with a Raymarine dedicated one.
Airmar suggest the old transducer is not in a sleeve/removable after all. So now I am running out of options, I think. Well, I can save alot of fuel and drive slowly, I guess.

Apologies, i'd misread some of your post.

The traditional Airmar transducers (non-NMEA 2000) will interchange between plotter manufacturers. They share common transducers and just use different plugs. I've just re-wired a Raymarine B60 bronze through hull to work with a Garmin fishfinder, for example.

You are correct though that the old transducer won't connect to the NMEA network as it's not NMEA 2000. Only way to utilise that would be to connect it to the Garmin NMEA 200 adapter cable, providing you could plug it together. That might involve fitting a Garmin plug and that's all starting to get very inelegant.

You could also fit a Garmin plug and use it on the Garmin network via a GSD22. Equally inelegant and costly though.

Investigating the problem with the new transducer is obviously the way to go. Why didn't you just fit it in place of the Raymarine transducer ? Could you swap them ?

You mention AIS not working. I'm assuming it's on the NMEA 0183 system ? Don't forget you need to go into the Garmin menus and change the port speed to "high speed".

Home screen > Communications > Configure

 

[PaulGooch]

Ah, I was looking for that this morning, but couldnt find it.
So, the question is, will it work with a Raymarine dedicated Airmar transducer...?
My last hope !

I assume you were talking about the cable https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=35610 ?

If that's correct, then yes, it should work. You need to find out if you can physically connect the Raymarine transducer to the Garmin NMEA 2000 adaptor, if so it should simply work.

If not, you'd need to fit a Garmin plug. That's not as hard as it might seem. A word with Airmar might help, but if they can't supply anything to help, you can find a bit of cable from a dead Garmin transducer and splice that to the Raymarine transducer. Airmar sell a waterproof juction box for joining transducer cables, but i did mine with soldered and heat shrunk joints close to the fishfinder.

Cross references and wiring schematics can be found here : http://www.airmartechnology.com/xref/default.asp

 

[gjgm]

Apologies, i'd misread some of your post.

The traditional Airmar transducers (non-NMEA 2000) will interchange between plotter manufacturers. They share common transducers and just use different plugs. I've just re-wired a Raymarine B60 bronze through hull to work with a Garmin fishfinder, for example.

You are correct though that the old transducer won't connect to the NMEA network as it's not NMEA 2000. Only way to utilise that would be to connect it to the Garmin NMEA 200 adapter cable, providing you could plug it together. That might involve fitting a Garmin plug and that's all starting to get very inelegant.

You could also fit a Garmin plug and use it on the Garmin network via a GSD22. Equally inelegant and costly though.

Investigating the problem with the new transducer is obviously the way to go. Why didn't you just fit it in place of the Raymarine transducer ? Could you swap them ?

You mention AIS not working. I'm assuming it's on the NMEA 0183 system ? Don't forget you need to go into the Garmin menus and change the port speed to "high speed".

Home screen > Communications > Configure

The Garmin GST cable seems only compatible with one Airmar transducer. Seems pretty useless cable then ! At this rate, I'll have to take the boat back out. There are two sensors.. on the port side is depth, on the starboard temp and speed. I replaced the starboard side with a new nmea 2k triducer. It appears I might have randomly chosen the wrong side as it might be that a skin fiting further up the hull is causing disturbance back down on the transducer. Looks like being a rather expensive mistake.
I dont think the AIS is anything to do with this. It should more or less constantly flash on AIS signals on the box itself, but there is nothing.

 

[mjf]

Yep I agree - test the unit but my guess is its in the wrong spot.

I assume its well aft so actually in the water?

 

[PaulGooch]

The Garmin GST cable seems only compatible with one Airmar transducer. Seems pretty useless cable then ! At this rate, I'll have to take the boat back out. There are two sensors.. on the port side is depth, on the starboard temp and speed. I replaced the starboard side with a new nmea 2k triducer. It appears I might have randomly chosen the wrong side as it might be that a skin fiting further up the hull is causing disturbance back down on the transducer. Looks like being a rather expensive mistake.
I dont think the AIS is anything to do with this. It should more or less constantly flash on AIS signals on the box itself, but there is nothing.

Looking closer, that cable does speed and temp, but not depth. To convert depth, you need one of these : https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=68537

Still unclear if the cable will fit, but it does look like it's flying leads.

Could you not manage until the next scheduled lift out, then swap the two around ?

 

[gjgm]

Yep I agree - test the unit but my guess is its in the wrong spot.

I assume its well aft so actually in the water?

Both sensors are mounted pretty close to the V on the inside of the hull in the engine bay, exactly mirroring each other. I guess it will work on the port side, not on the starboard. The old cable is still up at the helm as I didnt take it out. Must have been foresight.
Guess I need to get to the bottom of whether with a bit of plug adaption (well it was seatalk,so its just three small spade terminals) I can connect to the Garmin GST cable, and whether that Garmin adapter will convert the signal to NMEA 2k. PaulG thinks it would. Going to be alot simpler than lifting the boat, removing the old unit,fitting another and leaving it a week for the sealant to set. Not to mention running the cable through the boat
PaulG.. cant swap them.. the triducer is same sized hole but different housing, and the old one apparently isnt removable.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Could you not manage until the next scheduled lift out, then swap the two around ?

... or do it now - but be really, really quick! (I'll come and watch, if that'll help )

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[gjgm]

... or do it now - but be really, really quick! (I'll come and watch, if that'll help )

Cheers
Jimmy

You've got a snorkel havent you Jimmy? ...

Well, Airmar say the old one is P19 compatible, and Garmin (I think) say the conversion works with P19 or compatible.
So, unless you have your trunks at the ready, maybe this is worth a try.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

the old one apparently isnt removable.

No such thing, surely? Presumably it could be destructively removed, then install the new triducer in the old hole, and have your local grp person close up the new hole?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[gjgm]

No such thing, surely? Presumably it could be destructively removed, then install the new triducer in the old hole, and have your local grp person close up the new hole?

Cheers
Jimmy

No, sorry- some of the transducers themselves are removable as they are in a sleeve. The new one is, too. So, if the old Raymarine was, I could simply have unscrewed it and screwed in the new unit while the boat was in the water. Unfortunately the old unit is one solid piece, so, as you say, I would have to knock it out. However, since I just did this exercise a couple of weeks ago, I am well trained

 

[jfm]

I think we're talking about different systems here John. As for connecting to an NMEA 2000 network, you're right, although Airmar now do straight NMEA 2000 transducers that don't need the "pod".

What i was referring to was using an "old style" transducer. That would be connected to the Garmin Marine network, for example, using one of their GSD22 black box fishfinders.

Sounds like you're using the Garmin Nmea 2000 Tranducer Adapter Kit with a standard transducer ? Or one of these : https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=35610

Erk, actually the problem is that i was talking rubbish, sorry! I have a GSD22 and having now checked I can see you are dead right, and I was 100% wrong, in that the thing connects to GMN not N2K. So it can give a quasi video feed I guess. Anyway, sorry! I have a fully garmined boat but didn't wire it myself this time so I am running to catch up on this Garmin trickery

 

[PaulGooch]

Erk, actually the problem is that i was talking rubbish, sorry! I have a GSD22 and having now checked I can see you are dead right, and I was 100% wrong, in that the thing connects to GMN not N2K. So it can give a quasi video feed I guess. Anyway, sorry! I have a fully garmined boat but didn't wire it myself this time so I am running to catch up on this Garmin trickery

After i made that post, i was wondering what you had. Didn't sound right you having adapters and stuff. As far as i can tell, what you have is probably better than having the N2K network transducer, at least because you can have up to a 2kw transducer.

Be nice to have a thread at some point to see how you get on with all of that Garmin stuff. Especially as you can make comparisons to Raymarine etc.

 

[PaulGooch]

No, sorry- some of the transducers themselves are removable as they are in a sleeve. The new one is, too. So, if the old Raymarine was, I could simply have unscrewed it and screwed in the new unit while the boat was in the water. Unfortunately the old unit is one solid piece, so, as you say, I would have to knock it out. However, since I just did this exercise a couple of weeks ago, I am well trained

Might be an idea to step back a bit and see what's what.

Unless there is a big difference in whole sizes, the transducers should swap, without damage but needing a lift out.

Can you post the part number of the Raymarine transducer (should be a sicker around the cable). Or tell me exactly what it was connected to and how ?

Assuming the new transducer is the DST800, the whole size is 51mm
Assuming the old one is a B19 or a B619, that also has a hole size of 51mm

Based on those assumptions, they would swap, but you'll need a lift out.

Other option is to use the Raymarine transducer, somehow connecting it to the Garmin. Options to explore there would be either, the NMEA adapter kit (not the GST 10, as that only does speed and temp) or, the GSD22 that JFM has.

GSD22 connection should be a simple case of getting a plug onto the Raymarine cable, connect that to the GSD22 then connect the GSD22 to the plotter using one of the Garmin Marine Network ports (what plotter do you have ?)

NMEA 2000 adapter connection i'm not sure about, as i can't find any installation instructions for it. I'd fire an email off to Garmin asking for some instructions.

With the current NMEA 2000 triducer, what do you get on the plotter, just digital depth info, or a fishfinder type display ?

 

[David2452]

Come to this a bit late as I have been up to my neck in heatshrink.
To save any problems (assuming you have an Airmar B744v triducer) On a recent install I was going to simply change the existing Raymarine plug for a Garmin one using the special Airmar splice kit and connect to a garmin GSD22 but decided to check with Airmar beforehand. Here is the reply I got, its a no go. There is a way around it by fitting the field replicable paddlewheel insert that contains the wheel and trigger with its own cable but that has to be spliced in, then you have to splice in the Garmin plug as well so not at all elegant, easier just to replace the whole lot.

“We do stock the Garmin 6 pin plug but I am sorry to inform you that the Raymarine compatible B744V will not work with a Garmin sounder. The Raymarine internal speed wiring is unique”

 

[gjgm]

Might be an idea to step back a bit and see what's what.

Unless there is a big difference in whole sizes, the transducers should swap, without damage but needing a lift out.

Can you post the part number of the Raymarine transducer (should be a sicker around the cable). Or tell me exactly what it was connected to and how ?

Assuming the new transducer is the DST800, the whole size is 51mm
Assuming the old one is a B19 or a B619, that also has a hole size of 51mm

Based on those assumptions, they would swap, but you'll need a lift out.

Other option is to use the Raymarine transducer, somehow connecting it to the Garmin. Options to explore there would be either, the NMEA adapter kit (not the GST 10, as that only does speed and temp) or, the GSD22 that JFM has.

GSD22 connection should be a simple case of getting a plug onto the Raymarine cable, connect that to the GSD22 then connect the GSD22 to the plotter using one of the Garmin Marine Network ports (what plotter do you have ?)

NMEA 2000 adapter connection i'm not sure about, as i can't find any installation instructions for it. I'd fire an email off to Garmin asking for some instructions.

With the current NMEA 2000 triducer, what do you get on the plotter, just digital depth info, or a fishfinder type display ?

The DST is removable within the housing, the old one is not- and despite the hull hole size being the same, the casings are not. So, replacing the Raymarine unit means knocking it out and starting again.
Airmar have been fantastic, both on the phone an email. They confirm the Raymarine unit is a P19 (sorry, cant remember whose coding that is anymore- I've got transducer codes in my sleep). The Garmin adapter unit seems so new there isnt anything about the specs on Garmin's web page, or any searches. Garmin were also very quick in emailing a response that the transducer kit will work with P19 or equivalent.
So, I'm going to give that a try as if it works it saves half a day rewiring down the boat, as the old Raymarine cabling I cleverly left installed. Ahem.
The DST gives temp, speed and depth, as numerics, not graphic.
Not sure these adapter cables are even in the country, but tried some new internet firm who checked delivery at 5 days, but emailed back a few hours later saying no, they've been re-informed it will be 8 days- and did I want to cancel or go ahead. Very fair of them I thought.
So, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks. If it doesnt work, then I'll have to get the boat back out and fit a new transducer on the port side. Well, I suppose I could get a blanking plug and a new housing and then I can swap it back and forth to my hearts content
So, readers, check those skin fitting locations even if replacing a unit.

 

[PaulGooch]

The DST is removable within the housing, the old one is not- and despite the hull hole size being the same, the casings are not. So, replacing the Raymarine unit means knocking it out and starting again.

Should still be doable, by swapping each unit in its entirety, but obviously needing a lift out. You'll just need to take care removing the units, as the Sikaflex will not be keen to let go.

Airmar have been fantastic, both on the phone an email. They confirm the Raymarine unit is a P19 (sorry, cant remember whose coding that is anymore- I've got transducer codes in my sleep). The Garmin adapter unit seems so new there isnt anything about the specs on Garmin's web page, or any searches. Garmin were also very quick in emailing a response that the transducer kit will work with P19 or equivalent.
So, I'm going to give that a try as if it works it saves half a day rewiring down the boat, as the old Raymarine cabling I cleverly left installed. Ahem.

Yes, i've had good responses and service from both Garmin and Airmar in the past. P19 wiring is simple, only three wires.

The DST gives temp, speed and depth, as numerics, not graphic.

Hmm, thought so. Do you have a separate fishfinder ?

Another option would be to connect the P19 to a Garmin GSD22 black box fishfinder and then to the plotter via the Garmin Marine Network. You get the digital depth readout, plus the option of split screen graphical sounder :

IMO, this would be the best way forward, although not the cheapest, as the GSD22 costs around £300. But, using a GSD22 and the P19 on the Garmin Marine Network, with the N2K transducer giving temp and speed, makes for a nice setup.

Not sure these adapter cables are even in the country, but tried some new internet firm who checked delivery at 5 days, but emailed back a few hours later saying no, they've been re-informed it will be 8 days- and did I want to cancel or go ahead. Very fair of them I thought.
So, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks. If it doesnt work, then I'll have to get the boat back out and fit a new transducer on the port side. Well, I suppose I could get a blanking plug and a new housing and then I can swap it back and forth to my hearts content
So, readers, check those skin fitting locations even if replacing a unit.

I looked around too and came to the conclusion there weren't any here yet, maybe an order from the US would be quicker ?

It is definitely possible to use the Raymarine transducer with the Garmin plotter. I bought a brand new Raymarine B60 transducer from Ebay US for a silly price and acquired a Garmin cable from a dead transducer, a kind forumite from another forum sent it to me for free I then spliced the two together. I've had it working on a Garmin 340c fishfinder, perfectly.

So, to sum up :

Option 1 ) The Raymarine P19 to a GSD22, connected to the plotter vis Garmin Marine network. Will need to fit a Garmin plug to the P19. The N2K transducer connected via the N2K network. All in all, giving digital depth, temp and speed, with the option of split screen graphical fishfinder. Very neat system, IMO the best option, but a circa £300 spend.

Option 2 ) The Raymarine P19 connected to the N2K network via the Garmin adapter kit and the N2K triducer connected to the N2K network also. Giving digital temp, speed and depth. IMO the second best choice.

Option 3 ) Lift out and carefully swap both transducers in their entirety, assuming you don't beak anything. Still only gives you digital temp, speed and depth and is costly.

Options 4 ) Lift out and fit a second N2K housing with blanking plug for spare housing. Again, still only gives you digital temp, speed and depth and is costly.

 

[PaulGooch]

Come to this a bit late as I have been up to my neck in heatshrink.
To save any problems (assuming you have an Airmar B744v triducer) On a recent install I was going to simply change the existing Raymarine plug for a Garmin one using the special Airmar splice kit and connect to a garmin GSD22 but decided to check with Airmar beforehand. Here is the reply I got, its a no go. There is a way around it by fitting the field replicable paddlewheel insert that contains the wheel and trigger with its own cable but that has to be spliced in, then you have to splice in the Garmin plug as well so not at all elegant, easier just to replace the whole lot.

“We do stock the Garmin 6 pin plug but I am sorry to inform you that the Raymarine compatible B744V will not work with a Garmin sounder. The Raymarine internal speed wiring is unique”

David, the new transducer is an N2K triducer. The old one is a Raymarine depth only P19, formerly connected via Seatalk.

 

[gjgm]

Well, underway with your option 2. I dont have any use for fishfinder graphics, so no immediate use for the sounder solution. Worst outcome would be to lift out swap the triducer over and find I still have a problem, so I'll start with the simplest solution and see where I go from there.

 

[PaulGooch]

Well, underway with your option 2. I dont have any use for fishfinder graphics, so no immediate use for the sounder solution. Worst outcome would be to lift out swap the triducer over and find I still have a problem, so I'll start with the simplest solution and see where I go from there.

Hope it all goes well for you. Be interested to hear the outcome.

 

[David2452]

David, the new transducer is an N2K triducer. The old one is a Raymarine depth only P19, formerly connected via Seatalk.

Thanks Paul, that'll teach me to read the thread properly, still worth filing in the back of your mind for future reference though.