Nicholson 32 - sailing performance upwind and in heavy weather

[lw395]

Most people don't buy them because they are not being made any more.
They are not being made any more because these days if volume builders want to survive they have to go down the cheap and cheerful route.
To build proper boats costs money.

If lots of people wanted to buy them, builders would make them.
I think you are confusing build quality with design style.
You could build a classic long keel boat to similar costs and standards as a modern fin keeler, if you could sell the same numbers.
A long keeler might use a little more grp but the difference is going to be small in the price of a 35ft yacht.

Lots of British yards have gone bust building 'modern' fin (and bilge) keel yachts, building anything in the UK is a struggle. The builders who are doing well seem to be at the top of the scale for price and quality.

 

[lw395]

Use the handicaps rather than the corrected race results. Maybe I didnt make myself clear or you didnt read carefully, but thats what I was trying to say.

Sorry!
Fair point, if anything, use the raw elapsed times.
Also note that identical boats with different crews have widely different times, so don't take it to the nth degree!

 

[Adrian_]

Hmm, there's more to it. A Nic 32 has 3000 kgs of lead in it's keel, that's roughly 6000$ at current price. Of course no one makes encapsulated lead keels anymore, that would probably mean a 5500$ handicap on price over the construction cost of a iron cast keel.

 

[FWB]

Hmm, there's more to it. A Nic 32 has 3000 kgs of lead in it's keel, that's roughly 6000$ at current price. Of course no one makes encapsulated lead keels anymore, that would probably mean a 5500$ handicap on price over the construction cost of a iron cast keel.

Sam Heard of Gaffers & Luggers still produces boats with encapsulated lead.
My 28 has 5 tons of it in the keel

 

[Adrian_]

I stand corrected. However that's rather the exception then the rule. And probably the production figures are very small.

 

[FWB]

I stand corrected. However that's rather the exception then the rule. And probably the production figures are very small.

Yes you are correct. Lovely boats though

 

[doug748]

Hmm, there's more to it. A Nic 32 has 3000 kgs of lead in it's keel, that's roughly 6000$ at current price. Of course no one makes encapsulated lead keels anymore, that would probably mean a 5500$ handicap on price over the construction cost of a iron cast keel.

Yes, plus the building on-costs of such a venture, even before the expense of other "traditional" features are incorporated. The idea that expensive boats could be made pound shop cheap by building a lot of them is flawed at conception.

Any road, this gets you no futher. It seems that any question about the performance of boats is doomed to end in blather. Heartening though, that nobody has anything negative to say about the Nicholson for your intended use.

 

[Adrian_]

Any road, this gets you no futher. It seems that any question about the performance of boats is doomed to end in blather. Heartening though, that nobody has anything negative to say about the Nicholson for your intended use.

I'm still hoping that a few Nic 32 owners (current or former) would find this topic and give me some information about the boat's performance. (and other useful details coming from experience).

 

[Tranona]

Hmm, there's more to it. A Nic 32 has 3000 kgs of lead in it's keel, that's roughly 6000$ at current price. Of course no one makes encapsulated lead keels anymore, that would probably mean a 5500$ handicap on price over the construction cost of a iron cast keel.

With comparable quality of fitout and equipment the cost of a boat is almost directly a function of weight. Does not matter very much what the material is until you get into exotics. The reason nobody bothers to build heavy displacement boats of the old style is that people are mainly interested in space rather than weight so modern designs provide substantially more space in relation to their weight.

You can get a 37 footer like my Bavaria for the same material cost/weight as the Nic 32s you are looking at. Not for one minute claiming they are comparable boats, just that the Bavaria is more attuned to the mass market. Very few people use their boats in a way where the characteristics of a Nic 32 come to the fore. What is more, in today's market the people who get the most benefit out of that type of boat don't have the money to buy one new. So they are the lucky ones as they can get their ideal boat for a fraction of what a modern boat costs!

 

[Adrian_]

I guess you are at least partially right. It's clear that today's average customer isn't going to do anything close to long passages, therefore a boat suited for this kind of voyage and coming with a premium price would be very hard to sell.
However, I wouldn't say that there are no customers who could afford a modern interpretation of the Nic 32 design (while actually needing it). There are probably a few, but their numbers are not enough to make such a new boat economically viable.

 

[lw395]

Hmm, there's more to it. A Nic 32 has 3000 kgs of lead in it's keel, that's roughly 6000$ at current price. Of course no one makes encapsulated lead keels anymore, that would probably mean a 5500$ handicap on price over the construction cost of a iron cast keel.

Plenty of long keel boats had iron keels.
Plenty of fin keel boats have lead keels.

Although lead is a far more expensive metal to buy, it is probably cheaper to cast?
If anything, I would think the advantages of lead as a keel material were greater in a fin, being able to reduce the drag of the bulb at the bottom.
Really a separate issue to why people don't make or buy many long keel yachts these days.

 

[Adrian_]

Casting iron stuff in China isn't that expensive.

Anyway, we're floating far from the sailing performance of the Nic 32, which is the subject of the topic

 

[Seajet]

Well, I don't think a Vancouver has been built for at least 5 years and suspect that the number of Rustler 36 built recently would not challenge your fingers.

You're right; judging by my fingers at the moment they've only sold two boats !

 

[prv]

However, I wouldn't say that there are no customers who could afford a modern interpretation of the Nic 32 design (while actually needing it). There are probably a few, but their numbers are not enough to make such a new boat economically viable.

Aren't they the ones buying Rustlers and other expensive old-fashioned (in a good way) boats?

Island Packets are still long-keeled, I believe. The style does seem to have held on longer in the US than here.

You can't buy a new boat of this style at Bavaria prices, but those on a budget can still buy the old ones.

Pete

 

[matelot]

If lots of people wanted to buy them, builders would make them.
I think you are confusing build quality with design style.
You could build a classic long keel boat to similar costs and standards as a modern fin keeler, if you could sell the same numbers.
A long keeler might use a little more grp but the difference is going to be small in the price of a 35ft yacht.

Lots of British yards have gone bust building 'modern' fin (and bilge) keel yachts, building anything in the UK is a struggle. The builders who are doing well seem to be at the top of the scale for price and quality.

Odd really since the Germans who mass produce low price boats dont underpay their employees. Its an issue of investment and organisation.

That said Northshore will build you the spiritual inheritor of boats like the Nic with their Vancouver. But it will cost. As indeed would a similar quality from Sweden or even the US.

 

[wklein]

I appreciate how boring and predictable this is going to sound but if your looking for a boat of this type and price have you thought about and Excalibur 36? They tend to go for under 20k and have far more room than a nic 32, Sail better and have surprisingly roomy interiors. despite their age there is little to go wrong, encapsulated lead keels, No balsa core and very solid construction and fitout. Sadly the one for sale in scotland seems to have been sold.
Excalibur 36
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3800
Nic 32
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1192

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Well, I don't think a Vancouver has been built for at least 5 years and suspect that the number of Rustler 36 built recently would not challenge your fingers.

Rustler have built 21 Rustler 36's in the last 10 years. It is almost consistently 2 per year.

 

[Jim@sea]

I had a Moody 30 new in the same year as a friend has a new Nic 32.
Unless you are going Transatlantic I would go for the Moody for the greater accommodation and they hold their price.

 

[wklein]

Looking around you could get a sadler 32 for similar money. I suggest unless people can find a superior awb for a similar price they should keep their opinions about them to themselves. Also the condition of the sails and the ability of the sailor will have huge implications on performance.

 

[lw395]

Odd really since the Germans who mass produce low price boats dont underpay their employees. Its an issue of investment and organisation.

....

It's also about knowing what the market wants and building what you can sell enough of to recoup the investment in tooling.