NiCad or Eneloop for h/h radio AAs?

[NickNap]

Need to replace my 2yr old AA Nicads in Icom M3 h/h due to one duff cell, so will go for replacement set.

Does the team think I should I buy similar NiCads or go for Eneloop which appear to have a good writeup?

 

[noelex]

Eneloop would be my vote.
Eneloop are excellent batteries much lower self discharge and greater capacity than the NiCads and longer life than most of the other NiMH batteries.
.
NiMh do need slightly different parameters charging than NICad. How will you be charging them?

 

[NickNap]

Thanks Noelex, good question - would I be right in suspecting that my existing charger which plugs into the back of the radio (and presumably charges the Nicads in series) wouldn't be appropriate/matched correctly?

 

[PetiteFleur]

I recently replaced the nicads in my old Swiftech HH vhf with Nimh from STRIKALITE - who happened to have a standard set which just slotted in - all I did was solder the wires on. From memory they cost about £25 for two packs. I suspect they will make up a set to suit your vhf if you send them samples. Very helpful on the phone. The original charger seems to work OK.

 

[Boo2]

Thanks Noelex, good question - would I be right in suspecting that my existing charger which plugs into the back of the radio (and presumably charges the Nicads in series) wouldn't be appropriate/matched correctly?

Eneloop are a type of NiMH battery. NiMH have the same fast-charging regime as NiCads - charge until the cell voltage starts to drop. The difference is that the voltage drop is less for NiMH than for NiCads and some NiCad chargers will work better than others. If you buy a set of NiMH batteries then you can test them in your HH, if the charger doesn't drop out on a full charge then use them for something else.

Boo2

 

[electrosys]

There's the theory - and then there's the practice ....

I thought I'd be clever by installing sets of Eneloops in my handheld GPS's - all 4 of 'em - to help preserve their internal lithium batteries, as these GPS's sit around doing nothing for much of their lives. The idea being to leave the Eneloops in when they were not being used, then swap over to high capacity cells when in use. But - that strategy would have needed 16 AA cells, and I only had 8 Eneloops.
So - I put Eneloops in 2 of the GPS's and bog-standard Uniross NiMH cells in the other 2, and have checked 'em religiously every 3 months for the last 2 years.

On every single occasion I've checked, the standard Uniross still have charge, but the Eneloops have been flat.

Good theory, good marketing - but draw your own conclusions.

 

[VicS]

Good theory, good marketing - but draw your own conclusions.

Stick to alkalines for items that do not get heavy use.

Never had much joy with NiCds or NiMH.

Bought a set of Uniross NiMH with a 12v/240v charger for my camera but always carry a set of alkalines with me . Long shelf life!

 

[noelex]

I haven’t looked at the Icom M3 charger, but it is likely to be a simple slow constant current charger. If this is the case it can be used with the Eneloops. The battery lifespan will be shorter than ideal, but these batteries are cheap enough it should not be a major problem.
I would do a few things differently.
Feel how warm the battery is getting when it has been on charge for a long time.
If you double Icoms recommended charging time (the old batteries are likely to be near half the capacity) you will be probably close to fully charging them.
Try to unplug the charger when the batteries are fully charged.

 

[noelex]

There's the theory - and then there's the practice ....

I thought I'd be clever by installing sets of Eneloops in my handheld GPS's - all 4 of 'em - to help preserve their internal lithium batteries, as these GPS's sit around doing nothing for much of their lives. The idea being to leave the Eneloops in when they were not being used, then swap over to high capacity cells when in use. But - that strategy would have needed 16 AA cells, and I only had 8 Eneloops.
So - I put Eneloops in 2 of the GPS's and bog-standard Uniross NiMH cells in the other 2, and have checked 'em religiously every 3 months for the last 2 years.

On every single occasion I've checked, the standard Uniross still have charge, but the Eneloops have been flat.

Good theory, good marketing - but draw your own conclusions.

I am surprised by the poor performance you are getting with these batteries. The biggest improvement compared to most rechargeable batteries is there low self discharge. I have used these batteries for years and its not marketing, there is a big difference.
I can only think you got a defective battery, or they have been incorrectly treated, or possibly one particular GPS has a high drain when asleap.
The final possibility is that they are counterfeit. There have been reports of copies some of which look very close to the original.
Give another set a try before you dismiss them.

The idea being to leave the Eneloops in when they were not being used, then swap over to high capacity cells when in use. .

If you mean using 3000 or 3200 AA for their greater capacity
There is little to be gained by doing this. Most rechargeable batteries have a very over inflated capacity rating. The Eneloops will give you a genuine 2000 or 2100mHrs. It is very hard to get genuine ratings above 2600mHrs and batteries at this level get temperamental.

 

[electrosys]

I am surprised by the poor performance you are getting with these batteries.

So am I. Very disappointed. Think I'll install Duracells when not in use in future.

The biggest improvement compared to most rechargeable batteries is there low self discharge.

Allegedly.

I can only think you got a defective battery, or they have been incorrectly treated, or possibly one particular GPS has a high drain when asleap.

Defective - all 8 ? Treated the same as all my other batteries - these are the only ones which lose their charge rapidly - exactly the opposite of what the manufacturer claims. All GPS's checked for current drain - less than 100 microAmps.

The final possibility is that they are counterfeit. There have been reports of copies some of which look very close to the original.

Well, that's always a possibility - however, all my batteries come from the same reputable source - no Ebay stuff. I bought from Ebay only once - never again ...

If you mean using 3000 or 3200 AA for their greater capacity
There is little to be gained by doing this. Most rechargeable batteries have a very over inflated capacity rating. The Eneloops will give you a genuine 2000 or 2100mHrs. It is very hard to get genuine ratings above 2600mHrs and batteries at this level get temperamental.

The Eneloops I have are rated at only 1600mAh. The Uniross Classic/Encore cells I use are 2300/2500mAh. All batteries are approx. 3 years old - re-charged less than 20 times. I can only speak as I find.

Correction - whoops - the 'Eneloops' I have are actually Hybrios - same technology, afaik.

 

[noelex]

The Eneloops I have are rated at only 1600mAh. The Uniross Classic/Encore cells I use are 2300/2500mAh. All batteries are approx. 3 years old - re-charged less than 20 times. I can only speak as I find.

The Eneloop AA batteries are rated at 2000 mAHrs.

 

[noelex]

Correction - whoops - the 'Eneloops' I have are actually Hybrios - same technology, afaik.

That make more sense. There are some very poor rechargeable batteries including some of the LSD (low self discharge types). Some companies have branded ordinary NiMH batteries LSD to help sales
Bad performance with these poor batteries tends to put people off using rechargeable batteries, which is a pity as the better batteries combined with a good charger are excellent and a much better option than alkaline batteries in many applications on board a boat.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Surely the best thing would be to go for lithium batteries. But how do you adapt a radio for these?

 

[noelex]

Surely the best thing would be to go for lithium batteries. But how do you adapt a radio for these?

Yes lithium batteries are often a better solution, but given the different voltages, size of cells and very different charging regimes it is usually not practical to convert equipment designed for alkaline / NiCad /NiMh to lithium batteries.
There are also some concerns about explosions / fires during charging (unless A123 cells are used which is rare).
Most off us however have lithium batteries in our phones and laptops already, but maybe more scattered around the boat where they may be charging unattended is not ideal.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I did wonder because the Standard Horizon handheld I have which is NiMnH is now made and identical in appearance as a LiIon set.

 

[noelex]

I did wonder because the Standard Horizon handheld I have which is NiMnH is now made and identical in appearance as a LiIon set.

The charger will be very different as will the battery holder.
It is generally not practical to convert given the cheap cost of H/H VHF.
Having said that I am considering changing my old handheld Icom M7 (they don’t build them like that these days) over to lithium A123 cells using an external charger.
I have rebuilt the battery pack several times and unfortunately only AAA not AA cells fit. I am hoping a few lithium A123 cells will be easier if I can get some that will physically fit.
Do not do this type of change unless you know what you are doing (and have some time on your hands). Lithium cells need careful charging that is very different from NiCad batteries. If they are incorrectly charged or short circuited they can deliver a lot of energy.