Next land lubber question ?

[redbreast]

Still with out a boat, having sold my stink boat of 10 years, looking into sailling boats for our year out .
nauticat or similar looks good, now having a look at a Prout 38 any views most welcome.
Question for you all re Pout 38, hulls built in 1999 presumably sailed over to jersey then fitted out by customer relaunched 2004 Does this boat now sell as a 1999 or a 2004 boat

 

[Jonny_H]

If she wasn't launched until 2004 I would say 2004. Many home completed boats spend 5, 10 or more years being fitted out and are essentially new when they hit the water.

Also, there can often be a delay between building the hulls and selling them. I know of some Colvics who were, for example, hulls moulded in 1988, hulls sold in 1990, boat completed and launched in 1993. In this case most would regard as a 1993 boat - even though the hull number will say 1988.

However, this is assuming land delivery of the bare hulls - if they are delivered by sea I'm not 100% sure but don't see why it would make a difference. (They may well have been put on a ship to Jersey and not sailed over in their own right).

Home completed boats are interesting. They are all different (we have a Colvic Countess 37 and haven't seen another like it in terms of layout), if you find a good one it will (generally) be very good and someone will have spent a lot of time on it. However, look out for bodged bits (dodgy woodwork etc) as this can be a tell tale that hidden areas may be shabby too (wiring, plumbing etc). Generally the boat tends to be more accessible (engine easier to get at, all hoses easier to trace etc) as they were installed once the boat was structurally completed (as opposed to factory built boats where pipes can be lead through areas which are then concealed when the deck is put on).

Conversely, some people don't like the fact its been home completed and second hand prices can suffer (fine if buying but not if selling). Some insurance companies / finance companies aren't as keen on home completed boats either.

Personally, I wouldn't swap ours for anything - she has been fitted out extremely well and we have only found a couple of small areas that aren't exactly as we would want them (now rectified), and in general she is well above the standard of most factory built boats.

Also - make sure you get a folder of invoices from the person who fitted out the boat proving VAT was paid on everything. With factory boats you get one invoice for the boat, with home completed boats you get thousands of invoices!

Good luck with finding what you want - sorry I don't have any advice on Prout 38's specifically, but hopefully the above ramblings may be of use if looking at a customer completed boat.

Jonny

 

[redbreast]

All of what you have said makes complete sense thank you.
Just wondering as to what price to offer, up for 150k

 

[Jonny_H]

Ah well - thats entirely up to you.

Home completed boats are harder to sell as you don't get the 'factory build' (which can be a bonus!) nor a warranty, and also as it will be 'unique' you'll find you can't ring up and order, say a fuel tank to fit in a Bavaria 36, or a spray hood for an Oceanis 411.

Additionally, those needing finance to buy a boat may find the finance company won't fund a home completed boat (understandably concerned over quality of what they are buying!)

I would therefore suggest you are in a strong position to negotiate. Additionally, the current 'credit crunch' would mean many people won't be buying and further strengthen your position.

See if you can find out how long its been on the market, what price it started out, how keen the owners are to sell, if they need a quick sale etc and go from there.

No hard and fast rules that I've seen - no harm in testing the buyer with a low offer provided you don't offend!! Also, remember that bargaining is a more cunning tool than compromise when negotiating, so its not all about the price - see what extras you can get thrown in (dinghy / outboard / marina fees / haul out costs for survey / spares inventory etc etc etc)

Jonny

 

[redbreast]

To my advantage the work that has been undertaken is very well done he is a belt and bracers man (proffesional engineer)and the joinery is almost cabinet maker standard.
One minus is the additional weight of all extra work, small minus. Once ive had cooling off time iam going to make an offer it might offend but thats life. We might put a sweetener in that they can have a couple of holidays on her if sold to us. Its been on the market for 2 years, its at a "lot" of brokers... The couple have just sold there engineering business and entend to retire they were going to sail away now realize its too late (age) and health.

 

[Jonny_H]

Sounds like your in the ideal situation - if they couldn't sell it 2 years ago in a buoyant market they are really going to struggle now and they probably realise this. If they are not using the boat then marina fees and insurance will be mounting and you can use this as part of your negotiation.

Sounds very similar to our boat in terms of fit out - exactly what you want!

Just a thought - they may not want to holiday on 'their' boat as it may feel like rubbing salt into the wound - maybe canvas the broker on this? A bit of empathy will help your cause too, try writing / emailing the owner directly telling them what you intend to do with the boat - the boat is obviously a labour of love and so they may sacrifice some price if it goes to the right home.

Jonny

 

[Jonny_H]

Just another thought .... with a boat like the this (home completed) the owner (especially the first) will have a huge amount of knowledge (how things work, installations quirks, where wires are routed, etc etc) and there will be no manual.

A good negotiation could be some of his time - ie get him to help you put anything right that comes up on the survey, and to spend a weekend with you showing you how everything works and where everything is located.

We were unfortunate not to be able to do this on our boat due to the prior owner being extremely ill, and it took many many hours to establish what are pretty basic things (ie how to move fuel between the storage tanks and the running tank, what the little red switch with no label does, where the seacock is for the toilet inlet etc).

Bear this in mind - both from a negotiation stance (labour is expensive from a boat yard, so post survey work could be negotiated) and from a 'silly offer' stance, as you don't want to offend the owner and make him resentful and unhelpful if the deal subsequently goes ahead.


Jonny

 

[oxman]

We bought an amateur built Prout last year

The 35" hulls were built in 1972 but the completed boat was not launched till 1988 so she is a 1988 boat.

We negotiated through agent but also copied the owner in on all our emails keep him in the loop - a face to face meeting was the clincher - we got loads of info and he was happy that his labour of love was going to a good home - he did promise all sorts of extra help which has not materialised but I suppose that is partly my fault for not pushing.

Home built is, as said above, much easier in terms of simplicity and access to all the bits and pieces but of course there are personal idiosyncrasies! - these add to the personal feel in my opinion.

- its not a standard boat so may be difficult to sell but I believe if you get her for a good price then when you do come to sell there will be someone else out there looking for exactly what you are looking for!!

Last comment - Multihull World in Emsworth UK have their spring boat show on this weekend - an excellent opportunity to look at some other Prouts to guage the price and other ideas.

If you want any other info - feel free to PM me.