Newbridge Navigator, any positive opinions?

[DJE]

Thank you for the responses.

Most impressed with the North Sea crossings, not bad for a lake boat. Inclining towards going to view, despite Seajet's harsh words.

VicS, yes, Seawychs are an option. I love the internal layout and would be very tempted by one in good condition.

There are several in our club (but not junk rigged) as they suit the tight space and drying moorings. Two of them are very active in the cruiser fleet, compete in all the races and attend all the rallies. They struggle to make much progress against the Solent tides and they usually finish hours after everyone else. But their owners love them and take great pride in finishing the course if at all possible - it takes all sorts!
Calculated on cost per hour sailed they must be the best value boats in the club!

 

[Lakesailor]

They struggle to make much progress against the Solent tides and they usually finish hours after everyone else.

There are so many fine boats about, why beat yourself up like that?
At this price point (OP hasn't said, but it's not going to be a lot) things like trailer, motor and most importantly sail condition are the big considerations. so what seems to be a good boat may have a lot of extra expense built-in.
May as well look for a quality boat. Hunters are good boats.

 

[Chrissie]

Hello Merry girl, I sailed one out of the club DJE mentioned, and yes, I remember a round of applause once when finishing a race hours after the rest, but I loved the boat.

It was a lot more spacious inside than you can imagine, and very well built, (Im a Yacht surveyor, so know a thing or two about build quality) The keel bolts were as new after 25 years, never seen that on any boat before.

Slow, but comfortable, I could go out unreefed in weather I am fully reefed at in my present Contessa 26. Also, moorings cheaper because they can take the ground.

I gave my Newbridge Navigator away as I no longer had anywhere to keep her, and now I regularly sail past her, totally neglected by her new owners, brings tears to my eyes, I still love that boat, so Newbridges cant be that bad.
Only listen to people that have had them, theres a lot of unfounded bias, for some strange reason.

 

[halcyon]

There are so many fine boats about, why beat yourself up like that?
At this price point (OP hasn't said, but it's not going to be a lot) things like trailer, motor and most importantly sail condition are the big considerations. so what seems to be a good boat may have a lot of extra expense built-in.
May as well look for a quality boat. Hunters are good boats.

I wonder how many people that have owned and sailed a Navvy would give it a totally negative mark ?

I owned and sailed one for 3 years, and would give mine 75 / 100.

It has faults, but you learn how to get round them, or avoid them.

Brian

 

[VicS]

I'd love to know how "a Sea Wych is palatial compared to an Anderson 22" you are welcome for a sail !

Well you do have to live in it was well as sail it.

about 8" more headroom is graet help......

Compare the photo of a A22 Focsl with a Sea Wych focsl

Nice and spacious main cabin as well

........

plenty of room for a nice dining table too ( did you notice it stowed in the forepeak)

Sensible sized cockpit

 

[DJE]

There are so many fine boats about, why beat yourself up like that?

Like I said, it takes all sorts!

 

[timbartlett]

...They struggle to make much progress against the Solent tides and they usually finish hours after everyone else. ...

Interesting, this perception of speed -- or lack of it.
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web Documents/Cruiser 2012V1.xls gives the PY numbers for cruiser handicap racing 2012, including:
Newbridge Navigator 1252
Anderson 22 1132
Contessa 26 1168
Cornish Crabber 17 1250
CornishShrimper 1335
Folkboat 1175-1245
Foxhound 24 1440
Hunter Horizon 23 1191
Hurley22 1266
Jaguar 22 1300
Jeanneau Sunfast 20 1220
Leisure 23 1240
Macwester Rowan 1350
Vertue 25 1300
Westerly Centaur 1220

The ones in bold are the "trusted" figures, used to recalculate the others in successive years.

If you've not used Portsmouth numbers before, you can think of the number as the time a boat would take to complete a typical (but arbitrary) course. So if it took a Navigator 1252 minutes to complete a course, an Anderson 22 should complete the same course in 1132 minutes and a Macwester Rowan in 1350 minutes

 

[Chrusty 1]

Hello Merry girl, I sailed one out of the club DJE mentioned, and yes, I remember a round of applause once when finishing a race hours after the rest, but I loved the boat.

It was a lot more spacious inside than you can imagine, and very well built, (Im a Yacht surveyor, so know a thing or two about build quality) The keel bolts were as new after 25 years, never seen that on any boat before.

Slow, but comfortable, I could go out unreefed in weather I am fully reefed at in my present Contessa 26. Also, moorings cheaper because they can take the ground.

I gave my Newbridge Navigator away as I no longer had anywhere to keep her, and now I regularly sail past her, totally neglected by her new owners, brings tears to my eyes, I still love that boat, so Newbridges cant be that bad.
Only listen to people that have had them, theres a lot of unfounded bias, for some strange reason.

Well this is the YBW forums, often known in more sane circles as "La-La Land" I thought they had been remarkably restrained, must be heat exhaustion!

As has been said, there are loads of good boats out there, and some of them are going at very sensible prices, as has also been said, there will always be "hidden / extra" costs, but that is true of most boats. However, the little boat that the OP is interested in, is cute looking, and has a lot of things going for her on the extra costs front, like no expensive standing rigging, to worry about, she has a lot of room for a 19 footer, yes she is a bit tubby, but so what, she can take the ground, so cheap or even free moorings, a rig that anyone can fix because it's simple. The other thing with a junk rig, is she wont heel over as much as a bermudan rig, so she will be more comfortable to be aboard.

The bottom line is it don't matter what anybody else thinks, if she rings Merry Girl's bell when she sees her, that's all that matters, and if she doesn't, then Merry Girl can continue looking. Vic's suggestion is worth bearing in mind, especially if a sound, well built, comfortable boat is what the OP is looking for, not the best looking I would have to say, but beauty as they say.............

 

[CoVianna]

Buy the yacht you can afford now.

I refer you to Dylan Winter of this parish. I doubt anyone would say the Mirror Offshore is a speed machine, has an efficent hull, looks good etc but Dylan seems to be having great fun.

Have a test sail, look at the condition and see if it suits you. If so buy it and get out there.

 

[Chrusty 1]

I refer you to Dylan Winter of this parish. I doubt anyone would say the Mirror Offshore is a speed machine, has an efficent hull, looks good etc but Dylan seems to be having great fun.

Have a test sail, look at the condition and see if it suits you. If so buy it and get out there.

 

[prv]

Interesting, this perception of speed -- or lack of it.
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web Documents/Cruiser 2012V1.xls gives the PY numbers for cruiser handicap racing 2012

For ease of comparison, here's the same list sorted, slowest at the top:

Foxhound 24 1440
Macwester Rowan 1350
CornishShrimper 1335
Vertue 25 1300
Jaguar 22 1300
Hurley22 1266
Newbridge Navigator 1252
Cornish Crabber 17 1250
Leisure 23 1240
Jeanneau Sunfast 20 1220
Westerly Centaur 1220
Folkboat 1175-1245
Hunter Horizon 23 1191
Contessa 26 1168
Anderson 22 1132

Pete

 

[prv]

The Leasure 23 is a fine boat as long as one doesn't want to actually go anywhere

You write such rubbish sometimes

You got there ahead of me, Colin

I was going to point out that I've met Colin, aboard his Leisure 23, twice.

The first one was in Cherbourg.

The second was in Yarmouth, he having sailed from Poole, on a day when strong Easterlies and a foul tide meant that the Scuttlebutt trip to Poole had been called off due to the difficulty in getting back to the Solent. And he hadn't even intended to leave the harbour that day, till I called to warn him we weren't coming and he decided he was damn well going to join us in the pub regardless.

Not too bad for a boat for people that "[don't] want to actually go anywhere".

Pete

 

[halcyon]

For ease of comparison, here's the same list sorted, slowest at the top:

Foxhound 24 1440
Macwester Rowan 1350
CornishShrimper 1335
Vertue 25 1300
Jaguar 22 1300
Hurley22 1266
Newbridge Navigator 1252
Cornish Crabber 17 1250
Leisure 23 1240
Jeanneau Sunfast 20 1220
Westerly Centaur 1220
Folkboat 1175-1245
Hunter Horizon 23 1191
Contessa 26 1168
Anderson 22 1132

Pete

But the chap wanted to buy a 19 foot Navvy, it's bound to be slower than a Contessa 26.



Brian

 

[Blueboatman]

I think in all fairness Seawizz was trying to advise the OP to go in 'eyes wide open' when viewing.
A sea trial, preferably into a bit of a choppy headsea, would quickly reveal what is to me the only drawback with junk rig, that it can lack drive when pitching in a short lumpy sea, especially on smaller boats.
And I write as one who bought a newbridge j/r Corribee for just one summers use then kept it for 6 years. Went quite a long way in it too, without fear or fuss.

Dare to be different, if the price is right.

 

[prv]

But the chap wanted to buy a 19 foot Navvy, it's bound to be slower than a Contessa 26.

Well yeah, what's that got to do with me sorting Tim's list?

I put it into order for the benefit of other readers, as I got very confused about what was faster than what until I noticed it wasn't sorted.

Pete

 

[DJE]

The bilge keel Navigators in our club have been sailing off a PY of 1300. But their performance in tidal waters is nothing like that. They are achieving times that need a PY of something like 1500!

 

[Seajet]

No, I am not "talking out of my transom": I am expressing a perfectly valid opinion, based on facts, which happens to disagree with yours, and you don't like it so you are trying to shout me down.

From the reviews section of the website you linked to (Small Boat, 1976) "The maximum headroom is only 4ft 8in" That's the maximum, and it's 1-inch more than the distance from the floor to the top of my head when I'm kneeling down. I think "bare kneeling headroom" was a pretty good summary.

"Damn great drop keel case"? Well, I'm sorry, but I didn't realise that I was going to have to justify and quantify every element of my comment, but here's another view (from the same website) of the effect of that "unobtrusive keelcase" -- almost up to the deckhead, and almost half the length of the saloon.

.
Notice the unobtrusive way in which the interior layout has had to be designed around the keel case, so that the entrance to the fo'c'stle has to be offset to one side, partly blocked by the keel winch handle.

Don't get me wrong: I am NOT knocking the Anderson 22 -- well, I am now, but I didn't start off that way. The problem is that in a very small boat, compromises have to be made. Just because your choice involves different compromises than someone else's does not make their choice "wrong" or yours the only "right"

Nor does it mean that someone who attempts to inject a bit of balance is "talking out of their transom".

Tim,

I respect your well kown opinions on some things, but the A22 keelcase does not 'extend almost to the deckhead' ( unless you're thinking of the early type I show on the website for comparison ? ) and while I make an effort to sail any different class I can, I can say with complete honesty I've never found a roomier 22' with even adequate performance.

VicS's photo's do show the bulkead in a very forward position - sorry Vic but we know the Sea Wych's sailing performance is unlikely to set ones' hair on fire -, and the Anderson has a separate loo, quite a boon !

3 of us ( self, my fiancee and a chum ) lived on my boat for weeks in a winter with snow several inches thick on deck, the same trio managed a 3 week sail around the Channel Islands & West Country, and were still on speaking terms at the end !

The headroom BTW is 4'8", I'd call it 'comfortable sitting headroom'; when I had a Carter 30 with standing headroom I still found we were sitting to navigate, eat or chat, this and other things made me ask myself " why am I paying so much just to lug this furniture around ?! " and buy my Anderson back.

She's not perfect,all boats are a compromise; designs like the E-Boat are a lot faster in light airs ( though it would take a much more attractive bloke than me to convince females the interior is acceptable ), but I'm happy in the knowledge she can take a lot more heavy weather than I can...

Tim and Vic, you are both very welcome for a sail, I promise I'll shut up and let you judge !

David Harding of PBO and Duncan Kent then with Sailing Today seemed to like her a lot, in fact I don't think I've ever seen such favourable reviews.

Of course I'm biased !

 

[Bru]

Looking at the original RYA issue spreadsheet, the PY for the Navigator is low confidence which means its based on a limited number of returns

The surprisingly high rating for the Navvy is probably due to a small number, or even just one boat, which are/is well set up with decent new-ish sails and a very good crew racing regularly

Annoyingly, the Islander 23 doesn't feature but the (rig and hull wise) all but identical albeit slightly larger Vivacity 24 does ... right next to the Navigator! Now I know for a fact that the average Vivacity 24 will sail rings around the average Newbridge Navigator! To what extent PY numbers reflect the reality of pottering around in the average small cruising yacht is a matter for endless debate I suspect!

But you know what? It matters not one jot. It's all about compromise because every small boat ... every boat if it comes to it ... is a compromise

Your compromises will differ from mine will differ from Seajets.

 

[Seajet]

Brigantia,

well people can't all be perfect like wot I am !

I do find the PY list shown by Pete rather strange, for a start I think the Foxhound is much faster than that, and a good Folkboat might be tough opposition for an Anderson 22 in some conditions.

Also I've seen some rather odd PY's for Westerlies of various types, I think too few race to enable judging a really accurate rating.

Handicaps are always funny things, I gave up on my clubs' annual cruiser race, self and chum - who raced dinghies in the Winter at Chichester YC - 'knew' we'd won it 3 times, but the cup always went to ' a good chap ' in the club; the only time they had to admit we'd won was when we were virtually out of sight of the rest of the boats !

 

[prv]

I do find the PY list shown by Pete rather strange

Don't blame me, Tim posted it.

Pete