Newbie seeking advice - Victoria 30 v Halmatic 30 v Nicholson 31

I am keeping an open mind on this and truly appreciate the feedback and comments that you guys are providing - it is all relevant information.

I have also looked at the Nic 32, 35 and Trident boats. I read an old article in YM re these type of "blue water" cruisers where it also mentioned Vancouvers, Tradewind, Contessa and Rustler - so I guess there is a lot to look at! I do understand that EVERY boat is a compromise and that there is a lot of choice out there and that perhaps I will NEVER find the dream boat!!

I have only sailed a Vic 34, Feeling 30 (both on Comp Crew) and a BT Challenge 67 (expedition). I am back in the UK next week - again on a Vic 34 to get some more experience. This is followed by a combined DS course but not too sure on what yacht yet. We have considered the charter direction - and may still persue this avenue - but I am currently in a position where time and money are good and would not like to miss the opportunity to have our own - without rushing head long into disaster / the wrong boat etc.

Thanks again
Paul
 
I have friends in both a Halmatic 30 & a Challenger 35 who have successfully circumnavigated in these boats.

I don't think either of them voiced disappointment in their choice or bewailed the fact that they were in an old (nowadays smallish) boat.

They made good passage times in the conditions most of us face on the normal coconut run.

When at rest, life seemed to go on the same as everybody else, sight-seeing, parties on board, shopping for stores etc etc.

And, as has been said before, when you're anchored the views are the same for everybody.

As to maintenance & things going wrong - well that goes with the territory.
However, when I was out there, newish builds had problems as did the older boats - nobody was exempt from the stresses that long-distance (not harbour-hopping) sailing puts on boats.

IMO a Halmatic 30 or Nic31 would be a good choice if in good condition for their age - if that's the type of boat you can afford & want.
 
Have you sailed smaller boats and dinghies first ?

Dinghies are so responsive, to crew weight, sail trim and the slightest movement on the tiller - or else one gets dunked if getting it wrong...

I instructed a long time ago, and the golden rule was that ex-dinghy sailors were far better than people who'd gone staight into cruisers.
 
Offshore cruising

Great thread which I read with interest...

All the poijnts I would have made have been covered but I just winder of you have looked at the Vancouver 27/28 from Norshshore Yachts.
They will happily take you round the world and then round again in safety and comfort.
Brilliant owneres association too.

And yes, I speak as an ex owner - had mine for ten years befoire illness forced a change.

The vancouver was quite capable of supportyng a wind vane steering system too - I had an Aries on mine - I just wonder if all the older boats with less bouyancy aft would be up for it?

Do try to get down to Northshore to look at a few secondhand 27's or 28's - they usually have a couple at their yard for sale.

Good luck and happy sailking - you will be living my dream!!!
 
I'm fascinated by the concept that new AWBs cost less to maintain than an older boat. Standing rigging is considered U/S by your insurers at ten years whether that is the age of the boat or not. Keels generally fall off new boats! Antifouling has to be done from day one. Liferafts have to be serviced every three years, EPIRBS every five. An older boat doesn't end up sitting ashore waiting for a warranty dispute to be resolved. AWBs are built down to a price and not so hardwearing. Unsealed end grain - common on mass produciton AWBs - should be a hanging offence.

No, I just don't see it. Find a sound boat which needs a good clean and update of the instruments and make an offer based on what you are going to spend on it to make it yours.

Rob.
 
rob2 said:
I'm fascinated by the concept that new AWBs cost less to maintain than an older boat. Standing rigging is considered U/S by your insurers at ten years whether that is the age of the boat or not. Keels generally fall off new boats! Antifouling has to be done from day one. Liferafts have to be serviced every three years, EPIRBS every five. An older boat doesn't end up sitting ashore waiting for a warranty dispute to be resolved. AWBs are built down to a price and not so hardwearing. Unsealed end grain - common on mass produciton AWBs - should be a hanging offence.

No, I just don't see it. Find a sound boat which needs a good clean and update of the instruments and make an offer based on what you are going to spend on it to make it yours.

Rob.
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Owning one of each I can say without hesitation that an AWB is much easier to own and maintain than an MAB. Firstly there is the simple difference of age - if you buy a 30 year old boat it is almost certainly more "worn" than a 10 year old. Despite what you say standards of construction on older boats was less good on average and a bit hit and miss. Equipment will be old and obsolete so often like electrics and engines need completely replacing. This in part explains why generally they are "cheap" in relation to replacement cost and why major work costs are out of proportion to value.

AWBs are built to a price - by efficient use of materials and labour, not through lower specification. Most of the equipment on my Bavaria comes from the same source as much more expensive boats and lasts just the same. After 10 years and more usage than a typical boat will get in 30 or 40 years nothing significant has broken, everything works and it still looks good.

The only thing you are broadly right about is that certain annual maintenance costs are the same, size for size - mooring, antifoul, servicing etc.
 
While Bavarias are suffering at the moment - exactly how many keels have actually fallen off ?

I'm more than a bit dubious about the claim "modern boats keels fall off"...

My boat was built in 1977, the only time a keel fell off one was when the owner jettisoned it ( a lift keel ) on a coral reef to save the boat, but I'd reckon for most boats today's standards are better.

My late chum had a twin keel 'Mystic' 22 footer of 1960's vintage, which lost a keel while on her mooring...
 
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Getting interesting!

This is getting interesting and the more replies the deeper this gets - which for me is invaluable information as a newbie - THANKS!

to Tradewinds - I have not ruled out any of the Trident range....

to Seajet - I have never sailed in dinghies and at 44 years old and 6ft 4" I may leave this to the "younger generation"! No doubt it would be fun though.....

to Dorsetpete - sceptical about going to a 26/28 footer due to wanting to make it the family thing. We did comp Crew on a Feeling 30 and the bottom line from swmbo was "no smaller than a 30 ft". Added to that the 18 stone and 6ft 4" factor!!

to Moonfire - have skimmed the info on Rivals, Rustlers and Tradewinds - will look again - thanks

I looked at an Elizabethan 29 and a Halmatic 30 that Ancast had advertised the last time I was in the UK (May) - the Halmatic was just about do-able but the Elizabethan was way too small in the headroom stakes.

As previously stated, I have done little sailing in all reality and have little knowledge about the good, the bad and the ugly. This forum is proving invaluable and thanks for the inputs.

Is it common practice for standing rigging to have to be replaced every 10 years or is that just what is recommended?

Paul
 
I would be surprised if you could find any yacht of around 30' with enough headroom for you. However adequate headroom for my 6' 0" was one of the criteria involved when we bought a Halmatic 5 years ago. Very pleased with it in all respects, we did however have to spend quite a bit on upgrading instrumentation and replacing sails, as you might expect on a 30 year old yacht. The sails were original and the instruments poor or u/s.

Whether one could have a better result from budgetting to pay out the likely total in one lump at the outset I am not sure, but a newer Rustler would have cost a great deal more I think.

Neither of us like the modern shallow bilge fin keel hull found on nearly all modern yachts. The long keel does take some getting used to going in and out of marinas, but we have only had one not too serious problem, and that was more inexperience than a fault of the long keel per se.
 
Saltram 31

Check out the Saltram 31's . Good quality build and good cruising boats which are not slow and have a predictable motion. Think only a handful 31's were built though. They have 6'2" headroom.
 
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I test sailed a Victoria 30 and was seriously impressed, a deceptively fast passage maker, but room and stowage may be a snag if planning really long trips; chatting with the designer Chuck Paine was illuminating too, a great guy.

I've found Vancouvers ( and a fair few Island Packets ) tend to attract posers who are never going far but like to say loudly " I've got a Round The World Boat ".

In fact very slow and useless for normal cruising.

I'd slightly dispute the comment about 'go for a yard finished Rival 34' as a late friend had one he'd finished himself, 'Blue Talisman' if she's not been renamed by now.

She was one of the best fitted out yachts it has ever been my pleasure to go aboard.

I run the owners' association for Anderson 22's and the odd A26 ; they vary enormously, a well built & kept kit boat is often better than a yard finished one, it's a matter of time and care.
 
Leighb said:
I would be surprised if you could find any yacht of around 30' with enough headroom for you.
.
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And there in lies on of the fundamental problems and part of the dilemma - stick to something that "will do to get experience etc" or hunt for a suitable "ticks all the boxes and will keep longer".....

As previously stated, I had a look around a Halmatic 30 last weekend and the headroom was not great but I could probably manage - at least I did not have to squeeze myself into the heads as I did on a feeling 30:eek:
 
PEEJAYSEA said:
And there in lies on of the fundamental problems and part of the dilemma - stick to something that "will do to get experience etc" or hunt for a suitable "ticks all the boxes and will keep longer".....

As previously stated, I had a look around a Halmatic 30 last weekend and the headroom was not great but I could probably manage - at least I did not have to squeeze myself into the heads as I did on a feeling 30:eek:
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Of the number of yachts that we looked at, all around 30-32', the Halmatic had the most spacious heads compartment. This was a definite plus for SWMBO :D
As was the wide single/double berth in the saloon. Guess where I sleep?
 
Leighb said:
I would be surprised if you could find any yacht of around 30' with enough headroom for you.
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I'm 6' 4" and have ceased to care about headroom. Any boat I can afford with standing headroom for me will be an ugly floating caravan, so I just put up with a bit of stooping. It's awful nice to have a boat in which I can put on my trousers in the cabin, though!
 
PEEJAYSEA said:
Hi

I am looking at the possibility of a first yacht purchase and woiuld appreciate some thoughts on the choices / variations between a Victoria 30 v Halmatic 30 v Nicholson 31.

I am keener on the more classic style of yacht rather than newer boats; am keen on long keel with a view to possible longer / ocean trips in the future or the possibility of the Jester Challenge in a few years. Wheel or tiller does not concern me.

I am also mindful of having read some of the advice in other threads about first purchase - upgrading after a few years etc v not biting off too much to chew!

Any thoughts / guidance / comments would be appreciated

Thanks
Paul
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I've just been rereading this old thread.
(I'm beginning to think about my "next boat")
Did the OP, Peejaysea, ever buy a boat and if so what?

Just curious
 
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