Newbie: first boat buyer needing help, Part 2

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chris000

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Hello.... Please be gentle, this is my second post here!

I thought I'd split my problem into 2 posts as it seems 2 different but related(?) issues.

My first post covers my background and asks for suggested make/models? That post is here:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1070225/an/0/page/0#1070225

So anyway... What is this post about?

I'm currently looking at 10-20 year old 30-32ft boats in the range of £30k-£40k.
What probing questions should I be asking the broker?

Basically I'm finding that I'm getting a pretty poor service from every broker I've emailed/called/visited - and I think it's mainly down to the way I'm coming across to them.
* Primarily I don't really know what I'm talking about - see Part 1 post.
* I may(?) be younger than the average buyer? Don't know??
* I'm admittedly a bit rough around the edges in my look/feel!

I'm frustrated that I don't feel I'm being taken seriously - and I know that my lack of boating vocabulary/ knowledge and "tire kicking" abilities is making me come across as a time waster.

So....
I'm currently looking at 10-20 year old 30-32ft boats in the range of £30k-£40k.
What probing questions should I be asking the broker?

Thanks in advance...
Chris
 
I wouldn't worry too much about how you appear to the brokers. What you are describing sounds very much like the standard service we all get from brokers.

You're obviously enthusiastic about it, just keep plugging away and you'll learn a lot about it as you go. There's a useful booklet published by RYA about buying a secondhand boat. It covers the legal side which you do need to get right. Get hold of a copy; it's worth every penny.

Whatever you do don't rush into it. Take your time and try to let your head rule your heart, not vice versa!
 
your 'brother in law' was it? an ocean YM yes... Maybe a good idea when you have a short list of what you think are great boats pass them on to him or here. Cut this list down to boats to look at. The ones that both you and your wife think are right, clean, well cared for, seem ok on your finals list. Get BIL to come for a viewing, he should show you what to look for, he will know what wears out, what will break the bank.

Your comments on hull and rig are good. You seem prepared to accept a mini project that is sea worthy but needs tidying which is good, you should get a better boat than those scared of the soft furnishings.

Extras should not be ignored either, liferafts, tenders, lifejackets, modern instruments (that work) can really add up later. Buckets and other locker fillers are not worth negotiating.

Personally, I would rather walk unhindered around the brokerage and ask about the boats I liked than be led by the broker to boats he is desperate to shift. Maybe leave the questions until your brother in law comes along.

After you have seen a few boats with him, you will probably have more confidence in what to look for without him.

Just some thoughts.
 
Cheers - from what you are saying it sounds like I'm not too far off track...

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I wouldn't worry too much about how you appear to the brokers. What you are describing sounds very much like the standard service we all get from brokers.

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Nuts! I hope this isn't really true. Maybe I should start my own broker business!

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You're obviously enthusiastic about it, just keep plugging away and you'll learn a lot about it as you go. There's a useful booklet published by RYA about buying a secondhand boat. It covers the legal side which you do need to get right. Get hold of a copy; it's worth every penny.

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Cool - I'm on track - got this book and a ton of others off Amazon... that said, I must say that I'm finding the nautical world quite a steep learning curve - there seems to be a massive amount of emotional sway / brand loyalty / commercial pressure / personal needs which really clouds this first time buy.

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Whatever you do don't rush into it. Take your time and try to let your head rule your heart, not vice versa!

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Amen to that... and yet maybe this is part of my trouble. I'm defo looking before I leap - but at some point I must leap in! I've been looking seriously (ie, £notes are sitting in the bank) for about 6 months now and my year of free time is 1/2 gone....

If I'm gonna do this I need to leap sooner rather than later to make full use of my free time....

Am I being unrealistic in expecting the brokers to match my needs to a boat? to do the leg work of searching for me? to call me when something of interest comes in?
 
you'll have to find a very good broker if you want them to do the matching for you. They will be trying to sell you what they have in stock at the time.

You are far better off being proactive and trawling all the available boats on the various internet sites and magazines
 
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your 'brother in law' was it? an ocean YM yes... Maybe a good idea when you have a short list of what you think are great boats pass them on to him or here. Cut this list down to boats to look at. The ones that both you and your wife think are right, clean, well cared for, seem ok on your finals list. Get BIL to come for a viewing, he should show you what to look for, he will know what wears out, what will break the bank.

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Not BIL - brother of a mate. He's given me a list a make/model - which I've stuck with to date. He's a busy person and I can't expect him to view all the options which come up. Good idea re quizing what will cost me ££ to fix and what won't.

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Your comments on hull and rig are good. You seem prepared to accept a mini project that is sea worthy but needs tidying which is good, you should get a better boat than those scared of the soft furnishings.

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Current advice is telling me this is the way forward. I'm getting stuck on the fact that the tired looking boats also seem to have a feel of general neglect about them - I'm not able to spot the difference between a knackered boat and one which is well used but has had the essentials looked after - at the expense of the cosmetics

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Personally, I would rather walk unhindered around the brokerage and ask about the boats I liked than be led by the broker to boats he is desperate to shift. Maybe leave the questions until your brother in law comes along.

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Good point - not thought of it like that.

Cheers.
 
Yup... That seems to be the case - and I am doing that...

Where I'm getting stuck is that when I go to physically view a boat I'm not really sure what I'm looking for to tell me that this is the one - I'm feeling that my viewing is too passive cos I don't know (have the confidence?) what needs probing to dig a little deeper...

An analagy - if I bought a computer I'd quiz about the amount and speed of the memory - the spin and seek time of the hard drive.... etc.

Hmmm - maybe there isn't an answer to this question; it's down to experience? I just don't want to make an expensive mistake.
 
when you get a short list you are really interested in, post here with boat and location. Often the forumites will know the boat in question and can tell you history etc. If you ask nicely, one of the locals may even come to view with you and give you an opinion
 
something else that is well worthwhile is getting an engine oil analysis done. It's very cheap compared to a new engine, and the labs are very good these days.Most surveyors won't comment much on the state of the engine, as there is little they can do by looking at it (other than you arranging for an engineer to take it for a sea trial and give it a once over and a good run to check oil pressure, cooling and how it is running, which is another option)
 
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Often the forumites will know the boat in question and can tell you history etc. If you ask nicely, one of the locals may even come to view with you and give you an opinion

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Really? Cool! Am I allowed to do that?

Well to date I've been looking for a Benneteau First 325 / Jeanneau Sun Fast 32 as the "prime" boat.
Then then Oceanis 320 / Odyssey as the "second best".

Obviously differing beasts - fast/first I like for the ease to get going. The beamer ones I like for the Mrs. requirements.

There is currently as First 325 down in Falmouth and a Sun Fast 32 in Port Solent - both are currently having work done on them and are not ready for viewing..... anyone know of them?
 
Sun Fast 32 is a good boat and interesing that you had already picked out the Benny when that was suggested by a couple of us! Just cos they are having work done on them doesnt mean they shouldnt be viewed though.....
 
Yep, it's one of the best things about these forums - personal knowledge.

If no one here knows of the boats in question (give it a day so people have a chance to read) then ask in Scuttlebutt - better to wait a bit, as double posting is a bit frowned upon and against forum rules, but in this circumstance is OK.
 
He, he.... well I figure that you've got to knock them down a bit.

The Fast is waiting a general clean up - so yeah, could view anyway.
The First is having various things down to plumbing and drive shaft apparently can't be viewed - actually... the broker on this one HAS been really helpful today; the exception to prove the rule re bad brokers?
 
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Have you decided between wheel or tiller as I see that is tiller

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I've only ever sailed with a wheel - but am told that a tiller is preferable... I don't really have an opinion due to lack of experience.
 
Tillers take up more space in the cockpit IMHO. It would also be easier for your SWMBO to steer with a wheel is she has not sailed before as teaching here the "back to front" way may be difficult. having said that some people master a tiller quickly
 
Having a tiller allows you to sail a 30something foot boat like a dinghy.

Wish I had a tiller.

All personal preferences really.
 
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