Newbie - advice please

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Step1

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Hi all. As the title states first post, so please be gentle, but have been reading with great interest for the past 12 months. Fantastic source of information. Anyway after a failed attempt to get on the water last year, it's happening this year so would be grateful for anyone's advice regarding the types of boats/engines I'm looking at.

Looking for a sports cruiser, 34-40ft Max that we can use in the Solent. Have two young kids, so will also use it as a floating caravan, so separate forward berth. Also needs to be ok in a chop, so as not to put them off. Obvious choices are Targa 34, 38, Sealine 34,38 or Sunseeker Portofino 35. Can find a wealth of info on the T34, S34 and S38 but little on the T38 or Sunseeker. Any experience of these two, particularly the latter I'd be very grateful to hear about.

Then engine wise, the choices seem to be Kad300, D4-300 EVC, D6-310. Are there any major pitfalls with these engines? Are they mainly reliably or would you try to avoid a boat with a particular engine? I think the KAD300 is generally accepted as the engine if choice for the T34, but what about D4-300 vs D6-310? Should add, while it maybe used as a caravan in the marina, I do want to have some fun when on the water which probably rules out a KAD32 powered S34?

Or, am I asking for trouble looking at 2004-2008 boats and should just get something newer and smaller as a first boat? The problem with this though is that there is very few options in newer boats that I like, and could see me changing it for something bigger after the first season.

Please help. What I learned on my previous failed attempt to buy something last summer is that there is a lot I don't know about boats, but this forum bridges that gap to the point that I still want to take the plunge, so thanks in advance.
 
They are all good boats and all good engines. Age wise, not a problem. The sealines tend to have more room inside. The fairline fans will tell you how much better they are at sea they are and better made. I've had sealines, princess' and fairlines and I'm not convinced there is that much difference to be honest. Although everyone will tell you about such and such a boat/engine that was rubbish. Big choice in the size range you are looking at. Go bigger, T37/38, S38 etc if you can as the extra space makes life aboard easier. Condition and some recent service history is everything - especially with the outdrives. Some surveyors are definitely better than others, so when you find a boat you like get some recommendations rather than the brokers mate.
 
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Boating with the family is all about comfort and space. Handling is important but ultimately with family boating you naturally tend to stay tied up for any weather which might prove challenging. I don't know your budget but I'm guessing in the region of £125k based on the models and years mentioned. I would look strongly at hard top boats - they extend the season comfortably and when in caravan mode provide extra living space protected from the elements. They also mean boating is universally more comfortable.

I would look seriously at the Sealine SC35 - it's a cavernous boat with lots of space and a smart hard top/roof system. The SC38 is also worth a look and is basically the S38 with the open HT. No real space advantage below over the 35 mind and they cost 15-20% more year for year.

As to your other boats, the sun seeker is actually closer to 38ft despite the name. Nice boats that gave a 'super yacht' feel to the interior. Targa 38 is also a good choice, though the hardtop GT version is fairly recent and might bust your budget but for the same reasons as stated above I'd consider it.

Other boats that might tick the boxes and worth perhaps a cursory look are:

Beneteau Monte Carlo 37/Gran Turismo 38
Jeanneau Prestige 34/38s
Windy Grand Mistral 37
Princess V42 (a bit longer but did start line as the V39)
 
Hi Step1 - best of luck. I've just been through a similar search myself - and ended up with a S34; not that I am saying that is necessarily right for you. What's your budget ? Have you been aboard each of the boats?
 
Nothing more to say really other than to recommend taking the plunge. From a family angle. As a family past time with young kids little beats it. It really does help tighten the family unit. Just take into account the kids age and make sure there is always something for them to do be it (urgh) internet or water toys. Catering for their needs has allowed me to be on the boat every weekend without friction and at 6 and 8 years old that is no small achievement. Again dependant on age, buy plastic covers :D You will not believe how quickly kids can track muck, beach sand and nibbles through a boat or what a mission it is to keep clean. Being overly precious about your pride and joy in that regard is a downer so it's always worth considering soft furnishings in your decision imo. I have deep shagpile carpets in mine. Lovely barefoot until you stand on a discarded sweet and velvet diner cushions. ... But finding that secluded beach is priceless. Kids and boat toilets... we wont go there, but take it into account. I have a vacuum fresh water flush and not manual sea water. Civilised for the missus but small kids never get it right. Plenty times as night quiet settles in I hear the gulper working furiously to find the loo has a bit of toilet paper stuck wedging the valve open and no water and full blackwater tanks. House batteries!! You can never have enough with kids. Its small things like these that should influence the final decision of all the good boats above so you can relax and not stress what the little monsters are up to and you dont wind up as Shrek.
 
Whatever you choose, remember the old adage that a boat is merely a hole in the water in which to throw money.
I've thrown a lot a my various vessels over the years and don't regret a minute of it
Good luck
 
Your shortlist all seems pretty sensible to me. Go and physically view an example of each of the boats on your list - hopefully you'll find that one of them delivers that 'wow' moment - and voila! you've found the model of boat that you want. Then, you've just got to find the right instance of that model.

When I was looking for my first sport cruiser I looked at the S34, the Windy 32, and Targas 34 and 37 - and it was the T37 that did it for me. Good luck with your search.
 
To help further with your questions re Fairline and Sealine visits to the following websites may help. They both have effective search boxes ...

www.Fairlineownersclub.com
www.Sealineforum.co.uk

I think there is also a similar Princess site.

However, if you want a superb family boat with wide safe decks, a fence all the way around, and a private owners cabin then please also consider the Corvette 320. The later models with 315 HP Yanmars will offer ~30 knots plus economic cruising at 8 knots. Superb versions from 2000 - 2005 are available around £125-150k.

Whatever you buy for your first boat saleability is key so avoid anything that has been languishing on a broker's books for more than 6-9 months.
 
Plenty of good advice on here already so I won't repeat it. I will emphasise a couple of points though. The first is the family thing and I can't emphasis enough the benefit having a shared pastime brings. Our kids went through their formative years in boating and not only did it keep us tight as a family but it has also had a significant impact upon their lives and it helped make them who they are.

The second is go for the biggest you can afford. If you can get a 37/38 footer then do it and skip the 34/35 range. It might not sound a lot but interior volume increases significantly with each additional foot in length. Go smaller and you will definitely want to change sooner, which will cost more in the long run.

Oh and a third thing....don't restrict your search to a particular area. Look nationwide and factor transport costs into the deal. That way you have a bigger choice and prices and condition do vary.

Good luck and enjoy the search, it can be great fun! :)
 
For my two penneth, you have some good advice above and as Greg2 stated, look further afield - even the continent if you feel bold. If you do find one in the med allow c5 - 6k to bring back to the UK by road. The Euro rate may work in your favour, and with fuel costs dropping haulage may be cheaper still..

You could do worse than consider a Bavaria, latest threads notwithstanding, the latest hulls give you masses of room at a good price.

Good luck in whatever you decide...
 
Thanks all, really appreciate the feedback. Totally agree with the family pastime. I was lucky enough to spend my childhood on small power boats my dad had, so got the bug then. If my boys enjoy it as much as I did, then they'll have a great time. I've had a little motor dinghy for the past couple of years which we throw in the Thames whenever we can, so they have a little experience of being on the water although very different.

Budget is around 100-125k so one other question is engines. Looking at T38s for example they seem to come with either D4-300 or D6-310 or D6-370. Accepting the latter is probably the one to go with if budget can be stretched, is there any difference between the 300 and the 310? Logic says the 6 cylinder will be more torquey and will be working less hard then the 4 cylinder and therefore more reliable? But extra weight will mean the extra 10hp won't make any difference in outright performance. I guess the question is why do some have the 310 and others the 300 and which is the preferable option?

Hadn't seen the Prestige 38s and looks very nice, so thanks for pointing out that one. Although they appear to be like hens teeth.
 
Step1 said:
.... Accepting the latter is probably the one to go with if budget can be stretched, is there any difference between the 300 and the 310? Logic says the 6 cylinder will be more torquey and will be working less hard then the 4 cylinder and therefore more reliable? But extra weight will mean the extra 10hp won't make any difference in outright performance. I guess the question is why do some have the 310 and others the 300 and which is the preferable option?
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That question is very subjective and liable to start a bun fight. Try asking where the torque curves are, where in the rev band the engines makes usable and max power and comparable economy and you may get better answers that you can then apply to the boat in question. But on a subjective opinion I'd go with a less stressed, more torque, more balanced 5.5 litre six everytime over a 3.7 litre 4 trying to match figures. But what do I know. Never had a modern 4 cylinder diesel in anything other than a car and I wouldn't want that in my boat.
 
Step1 said:
Thanks all, really appreciate the feedback. Totally agree with the family pastime. I was lucky enough to spend my childhood on small power boats my dad had, so got the bug then. If my boys enjoy it as much as I did, then they'll have a great time. I've had a little motor dinghy for the past couple of years which we throw in the Thames whenever we can, so they have a little experience of being on the water although very different.

Budget is around 100-125k so one other question is engines. Looking at T38s for example they seem to come with either D4-300 or D6-310 or D6-370. Accepting the latter is probably the one to go with if budget can be stretched, is there any difference between the 300 and the 310? Logic says the 6 cylinder will be more torquey and will be working less hard then the 4 cylinder and therefore more reliable? But extra weight will mean the extra 10hp won't make any difference in outright performance. I guess the question is why do some have the 310 and others the 300 and which is the preferable option?

Hadn't seen the Prestige 38s and looks very nice, so thanks for pointing out that one. Although they appear to be like hens teeth.
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When first launched the T38 came with D6-310 and DPH drives (at the time the D6 was available in 280Hp, 310Hp and 350Hp variants for stern drive applications). This made the starting price around £225k owing to the cost of the D6 motors. about 9-10 months after launch Fairline introduced a D4-260 option (the most powerful D4 at the time) to price point the boat at £199,950 (under £200k) to generate interest.

Subsequently Volvo launched the D4-300 and upgraded the D6 sterndrive packages to 330Hp and 370Hp. The lower power 280Hp variant was dropped all together. dont know if fairline offered all three options with the T38 or if they dropped the 330Hp option in favour of the 370Hp to make more room between that and the powerful D4 engine but I cant recall a 330Hp T38.

as for what to go for, a D6-310 boat will be older than a D4-300 boat as the D4 at that rating is a later engine. They are both sound engines and day to day I doubt you'll notice much difference. I have had a couple of D4s and they are smooth quite engines, more so than my previous KAD43 6 Cylinder (though the should be owing to more modern tech etc). What you will get from the D4s is less weight so you might find the boat perfroms better than the 310Hp D6 boats, plus loads more room in the engine bay.

D6-370 will be a later boat and a bit of a flyer, though there were some concerns about pushing the envelope of reliability with that much power through the sterndrives - unless Fairline upgraded to the DP-R which is a high power/speed drive with a shallow profile but I dont think they did. I personally think the drive can handle it fine (and they now do a 400Hp version for sterndive) and it wouldnt put me off but I wouldnt be busting to find a D6-370 boat at all costs over a D4-300.

I would avoid the D4-260 boats though as they are a compromise and a bit under powered.
 
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Nice background info :encouragement: but the engines themselves. Given comparable costs and maintenance, which would you go for now on a 2nd hand engine? It's hard to argue over engine room space and weight savings but the Volvo literature seems to pitch the D4 as a re-engine proposal against petrol V8's

I think the graphs speak for themselves

D4 : http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lEngines/diesel-centro/Documents/D4-300 I.pdf

D6: http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...gines/diesel-centro/Documents/D6-435 I SC.pdf
 
BruceK said:
Nice background info :encouragement: but the engines themselves. Given comparable costs and maintenance, which would you go for now on a 2nd hand engine? It's hard to argue over engine room space and weight savings but the Volvo literature seems to pitch the D4 as a re-engine proposal against petrol V8's

I think the graphs speak for themselves

D4 : http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lEngines/diesel-centro/Documents/D4-300 I.pdf

D6: http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...gines/diesel-centro/Documents/D6-435 I SC.pdf
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I think with a boat 6-8 years old id go on condition/servicing etc.

If all else were equal, including the price, then Id take the D6 boat. In reality though if it were a choice between a 2006 D6 boat and a 2010 D4 boat for the same money id take the D4 boat.
 
Interesting. Because I have straight 6 diesels in a boat that was designed for V8 petrols and I've often wondered how that extra weight affects performance. The Formula has a rep for been rather quick, but I'm not getting anywhere near V8 counterpart performance. Not that I want V8's, but should / when the time comes D4's may be a better proposition if the boat is not to be scrapped or returned to V8.
 
BruceK said:
Interesting. Because I have straight 6 diesels in a boat that was designed for V8 petrols and I've often wondered how that extra weight affects performance. The Formula has a rep for been rather quick, but I'm not getting anywhere near V8 counterpart performance. Not that I want V8's, but should / when the time comes D4's may be a better proposition if the boat is not to be scrapped or returned to V8.
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D4s are a great engine. Ive had them in two boats and used another 2 with them fitted. I like the D6 as well.

Problems came with the DPH drive but this affected both D4 and D6 models and it wasn't a power issue but a manufacturing/design issue that has now been resolved.

I suspect your formula would have come out of the factory with 5.7l or 7.4l V8s in petrol guise - likely to be 280Hp plus across the board. i dont know what lumps you have but i'm guessing AD41/KAD42 type, so 200-230Hp pluis a fair bit more weight and different power delivery attributes. Im not surprised you arent getting the performance of the petrols (though your wallet isnt getting the hammering either so Id still take the diesels!!!)
 
KAD42's ...... but still without the compressors :( Waiting on the new year to get a new round of clutches and speed relays) Maybe then we'll see more sparkle. The boat however feels slightly stern heavy if I run with empty freshwater tanks in the bow.
 
BruceK said:
KAD42's ...... but still without the compressors :( Waiting on the new year to get a new round of clutches and speed relays) Maybe then we'll see more sparkle. The boat however feels slightly stern heavy if I run with empty freshwater tanks in the bow.
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The dont really work well without the chargers - you should notice better get up and go with them re-instated
 
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