New Yachts - should we get them surveyed before delivery?

[pvb]

Dealer had gone bust. Contacted Bavaria and they said to contact the dealer as he was responsible for repairs under the contract between dealer and Bavaria. Told them dealer no longer existed and they said refer to Administrators. I said, you must be joking but they stuck to the story and I gave up. Life too short and the law too expensive. Repairs cost about £6,500 plus vat I seem to remember but it was ten years ago.

I bought a new boat and had some issues with work carried out by the dealer before delivery. In the end, the dealer said get it done and send us the bill. They didn't pay me, so I put it in to Small Claims. The dealer - a limited company - promptly "ceased trading". Except they continued in business, same people, same premises, same name (but they dropped the "Ltd").

 

[Concerto]

I bought a new boat and had some issues with work carried out by the dealer before delivery. In the end, the dealer said get it done and send us the bill. They didn't pay me, so I put it in to Small Claims. The dealer - a limited company - promptly "ceased trading". Except they continued in business, same people, same premises, same name (but they dropped the "Ltd").

I very much doubt they were no longer a limited company as the risks to the owners would be to great. I expect they bought an off the shelf limited company and used the old name without the Ltd as their trading name.

 

[pvb]

I very much doubt they were no longer a limited company as the risks to the owners would be to great. I expect they bought an off the shelf limited company and used the old name without the Ltd as their trading name.

Well, I'm sorry to say you're completely and utterly wrong. I'm well-versed in checking Companies House records, and the situation is exactly as I described.

 

[Garold]

I’m not sure that most dealers or manufacturers would accept the authority of an independent surveyor acting for the customer.

Most dealers are very willing to fix small items that don’t cost much but getting costlier items easily fixed, or rejecting a boat is unlikely.

Since most new boats have to be paid for before they leave the factory (the manufacturers ensure that they are not too exposed to dealers going bust) the customer doesn’t have much leverage at handover anyway.

New boat ownership is still largely about carrying the warranty yourself. This goes for after market kit suppliers too (unless they can claim it back from the OEM).

I have noticed though that build quality has improved over the years especially from the big manufacturers so ‘big’ problems seem rarer.

Garold

 

[Skylark]

As I read through the thread it seems that boat builders and dealers retain their 19th century practices. I thought that my experience was unique but evidently not.

I had failure of the domestic battery bank on my first day of ownership. The bank had been drained beyond recovery during commissioning. Within hours of disconnecting shore power, the voltage collapsed. I had a 250 mile journey ahead and the dealer attitude was "get it fixed and we'll refund you"

Almost all of my electronics has been replaced. The dealer had no interest whatsoever and said "warranty for branded items is not our problem". I needed to google and contact the electronic supplier CEO before I had any response.

At one time, sailing at night, I watched the moon reflecting from the sea. Wait a minute.....it was cloudy? I had 12v stray into the rigging and had an electrical glow on the guard rail where it touched the shroud. I had nav lights, guard rail and a shroud replaced.

I had my boat for at least two years until it was free from build bugs. The attitude of most people I encountered was that I was the Quality Final Inspector. They certainly didn't get the concept of building in quality, far easier for them to have it inspected at the end of the process.

I spent my career in automotive engineering. An industry light years ahead of recreational boat builders.

 

[pvb]

Most dealers are very willing to fix small items that don’t cost much but getting costlier items easily fixed, or rejecting a boat is unlikely.

Since most new boats have to be paid for before they leave the factory (the manufacturers ensure that they are not too exposed to dealers going bust) the customer doesn’t have much leverage at handover anyway.

As I read through the thread it seems that boat builders and dealers retain their 19th century practices.

If I were to buy another new boat, it would only be on the basis that the dealer would have to provide a bank guarantee for at least the full purchase price. There doesn't seem to be any other way to protect the buyer against default. If the dealer's bank won't provide a guarantee, that's a good indication that the dealer's financial situation may be precarious.

 

[Resolution]

If the dealer's bank won't provide a guarantee, that's a good indication that the dealer's financial situation may be precarious.

Not really - more an indication that the bank is not equipped to make judgements of an engineering nature.

 

[pvb]

Not really - more an indication that the bank is not equipped to make judgements of an engineering nature.

There's no engineering involved - the bank guarantee simply pays out if the dealer can't. The bank only has to decide whether the dealer is a good financial risk for them; if they decide not then customers shouldn't trust the dealer either.

 

[Tamar]

Following this thread with interest. Retirement is looming in the next five years. Having spent my life at sea and thinking of buying a new build motor vessel to play with.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

After a very close shave (decades ago) I'd now only buy new dealing directly with the builder. The boat was brought into the UK and taken straight to Earls Court for the boat show. The dealer must have swung it that he'd pay the yard when we paid him after launch, but had told us that we had to pay when it left EC, and had no intention to actually give the yard the cash. We paid and the boat left EC for launching on the S Coast. Luckily the one employee of the dealer thought it stank and 'phoned me to tip me off. I got an Interlocutory Injunction on it and we 'hid' it over on the IoW. The dealer liquidated and we never did hear how it got resolved (it would have been good to know that the yard had some sort of last resort insurance for example), but the builder refused warranty since they considered the boat stolen from them. What was less 'lucky' is that it was a very well-built boat and only one non-branded part failed. (Did you know that a standard fresh water pump can collapse two ss tanks almost completely if the protective tape isn't removed from the breathers?).