rusland
New member
Is it advisable to employ an inspection service to visit the yard during the building process in order to check quality? Medium-sized French yard producing 30 x 54ft boats per annum to a standard specification.
New Yacht Quality Control
- Thread starter rusland
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Guest
Guest
Dashew (when he was building yachts) used to charge a premium if the owner or his agent required an inspection during the build.
From my experience on the super yachts, the skipper could cause massive delays in a project if they were around. Either it is fixed price and no skipper, or its hourly.
In a production environment then you should have some acceptance standards or they could deliver a shoe box and a hanky. The best acceptance is a comparison to a known boat.
From my experience on the super yachts, the skipper could cause massive delays in a project if they were around. Either it is fixed price and no skipper, or its hourly.
In a production environment then you should have some acceptance standards or they could deliver a shoe box and a hanky. The best acceptance is a comparison to a known boat.
Birdseye
Well-known member
From memory, the RYA advise a surveyor to check out at specific stages. eg the hull mouldings.
Difficult one, because to a degree you are then accepting the risk yourself ie transferring it from the builders insurance to the surveyors for anything not spotted by the surveyor. Muddies the water a bit.
You wouldnt expect to inspect a car, even a semi hand made one. But most probably you would do that with a house. So where does a boat fit in between? Depends on the manufacturer I suppose. For BenJanBav - forget it. For a one off builder, then yes.
Difficult one, because to a degree you are then accepting the risk yourself ie transferring it from the builders insurance to the surveyors for anything not spotted by the surveyor. Muddies the water a bit.
You wouldnt expect to inspect a car, even a semi hand made one. But most probably you would do that with a house. So where does a boat fit in between? Depends on the manufacturer I suppose. For BenJanBav - forget it. For a one off builder, then yes.
Bat21
Member
That sounds like Amel, worth asking though, I understand from an owner that they discourage input from the buyer, a take it as it is or buy something else attitude.
jamesjermain
Active member
|Sending an inspector to a company like Beneteau is probably a wasteof time and money, even if they would accept one; they do it there way and that's it. Just about alhe could do is check the various options you have specified are included.
However, it might be worth employing a surveyor to give your boat a once over before commissioning and acceptance trials to ensure all faults are sorted before you take delivery.
With a one-off or low vilume builder, who might not have very sophisticated quality control, and who might be modifying the boat extensively to meet your requirements, periodic inspection (hull completion, deck on, interior completion, rigging and completion) can be well worth the money
However, it might be worth employing a surveyor to give your boat a once over before commissioning and acceptance trials to ensure all faults are sorted before you take delivery.
With a one-off or low vilume builder, who might not have very sophisticated quality control, and who might be modifying the boat extensively to meet your requirements, periodic inspection (hull completion, deck on, interior completion, rigging and completion) can be well worth the money
davidwf
Active member
I got badly burned with a Dufour a few years ago when it was shipped just before the French August holidays. It was unfinished and took 6 weeks to commision as we couldn't get the missing bits from the factory ( they were on holiday).
So from bitter experience before you hand over your final payment get on Easy Jet and go and look at the boat yourself to make sure you are happy with it.
So from bitter experience before you hand over your final payment get on Easy Jet and go and look at the boat yourself to make sure you are happy with it.
boatmike
Well-known member
Exactly.
Having been on the other side of the fence as a builder it is usual to have any customer requirement for inspection included in the contract. This is however usually specified as either Lloyds, DNV or similar. Unless the vessel is being built to one of these recognised standards you rely on the builders own QC and employing someone to "interfere" is usually a waste of time and causes delay.
Inspecting the vessel in the yard in the completed state yourself, and taking a qualified surveyor with you if you wish, is something no builder could object to though and there should be a substantial retention of payment until satisfied. A builders written guarantee (including soundness of hull and freedom from osmosis if plastic for a reasonable period) should also be obtained at final acceptance stage too and don't part with cash until you get one!
Having been on the other side of the fence as a builder it is usual to have any customer requirement for inspection included in the contract. This is however usually specified as either Lloyds, DNV or similar. Unless the vessel is being built to one of these recognised standards you rely on the builders own QC and employing someone to "interfere" is usually a waste of time and causes delay.
Inspecting the vessel in the yard in the completed state yourself, and taking a qualified surveyor with you if you wish, is something no builder could object to though and there should be a substantial retention of payment until satisfied. A builders written guarantee (including soundness of hull and freedom from osmosis if plastic for a reasonable period) should also be obtained at final acceptance stage too and don't part with cash until you get one!
TradewindSailor
Active member
JJ: "However, it might be worth employing a surveyor to give your boat a once over before commissioning and acceptance trials to ensure all faults are sorted before you take delivery. "
Although a Surveyor should be expected to find visible faults. It is probably too much to ask him to go round hitting a new hull with a mallet to determine whether the inner hull moulding is attached to the outer hull.
Frankly I think that with most 'modern construction' the surveyor is extremely limited in what he can do ..... even on a pre-purchase survey.
Unless the bulkheads have moved, the keel grillage has fractured, the deck has gone soft, or there are other tell-tale cracks ..... how can he tell that the structure is poor? It is pretty obvious in traditionally built boats though.
Another point ...... you might not tell that a boat has lost structural strength until the rig wont keep its tension or the creeks between the internal moulding and the hull become more obvious ...... and the surveyor wont know this until he/she takes it out for a sea-trial.
I don't want to hijack this thread ........ so I'll open another and ask for info on any major structural faults in boats less than 4 years old due to normal use ....... might be fun?
Although a Surveyor should be expected to find visible faults. It is probably too much to ask him to go round hitting a new hull with a mallet to determine whether the inner hull moulding is attached to the outer hull.
Frankly I think that with most 'modern construction' the surveyor is extremely limited in what he can do ..... even on a pre-purchase survey.
Unless the bulkheads have moved, the keel grillage has fractured, the deck has gone soft, or there are other tell-tale cracks ..... how can he tell that the structure is poor? It is pretty obvious in traditionally built boats though.
Another point ...... you might not tell that a boat has lost structural strength until the rig wont keep its tension or the creeks between the internal moulding and the hull become more obvious ...... and the surveyor wont know this until he/she takes it out for a sea-trial.
I don't want to hijack this thread ........ so I'll open another and ask for info on any major structural faults in boats less than 4 years old due to normal use ....... might be fun?
rusland
New member
Thanks Guys for full, considered response - yes it is AMEL. The consenus is that its more like a car than a house - you accept the quality control of the yard's factory. I agree.
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
Sailfree
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
|Sending an inspector to a company like Beneteau is probably a wasteof time and money, even if they would accept one; (insert DISAGREE) they do it there way and that's it. Just about alhe could do is check the various options you have specified are included (insert -AGREE).
[/ QUOTE ]
Comment on DISAGREE bit- A visit during the build is an important part of the fun of new boat ownership. It also shows the workers your interest. On ours we notice a ding on the top of the hull (deck was off) but were assured it would be repaired. Upon delivery could not see any sign of it - I suspect that knowing I would be looking for it they repaired it more thoroughly than normal.
Comment on AGREE bit - yes we found the extras of Bow Thruster and Heating deleted by dealer so that they could be fitted in the UK by Fred who as everyone knows does a vastly superior job than if they were fitted in Factory with QC and I believed the dealer s assurance that profit/cost was not a factor in his decision!! We then spent 15months getting Freds work put right!!
Only the names in this post have been changed to protect the Guilty!!
Moral - Aways visit during the build.
|Sending an inspector to a company like Beneteau is probably a wasteof time and money, even if they would accept one; (insert DISAGREE) they do it there way and that's it. Just about alhe could do is check the various options you have specified are included (insert -AGREE).
[/ QUOTE ]
Comment on DISAGREE bit- A visit during the build is an important part of the fun of new boat ownership. It also shows the workers your interest. On ours we notice a ding on the top of the hull (deck was off) but were assured it would be repaired. Upon delivery could not see any sign of it - I suspect that knowing I would be looking for it they repaired it more thoroughly than normal.
Comment on AGREE bit - yes we found the extras of Bow Thruster and Heating deleted by dealer so that they could be fitted in the UK by Fred who as everyone knows does a vastly superior job than if they were fitted in Factory with QC and I believed the dealer s assurance that profit/cost was not a factor in his decision!! We then spent 15months getting Freds work put right!!
Only the names in this post have been changed to protect the Guilty!!
Moral - Aways visit during the build.