New to this boating lark.

[Searush]

The problem with being a novice, is that you don't understand what you don't know, untill you find it out.

That is, it is easy to be confident if you don't know the pitfalls. The ignorant are over confident, the experienced are over cautious.

My point is, read as much as you can - go to the library it is free and you can read anywhere, any time. By all means get some dinghy time in - it is superb training for sailing skills, but also join a cruising club somewhere & get some time crewing on cruising boats. Get to know what you want out of your boat, what design features are suitable for your purposes & what are not. Sail on as many different boats as possible.

One book that may be worth reading is Trevor Wilson's "Sailing Alone Across the Atlantic (a Pensioner's Tale)". He has quite a lot of sailing experience, but has still lost 3 boats in his attempts to cross the Atlantic. Don't dismiss this as irrelevant, Biscay can be as bad (if not worse) than the Atlantic as it is shallow & you do not have safe sea room.

Staying inshore may seem safer, but most problems happen where the sea meets the land. Sitting in harbour waiting for "good weather" can ruin men & boats. Good luck with your dreams, but you have a lot of preparation to do if the dream is to be successfully realised.

 

[oGaryo]

Carp it was/is for me too.

selling my Great Linford lakes debenture if interested anyways, good luck with getting in to boating, hope it works out well for you

 

[fisherZ]

This book is quite good for the novice and more experienced sailor, covering most areas from dinghy sailing/racing (about 40% of the book),through to cruising,navigation,pilotage,tides,weather,mooring,safety etc etc.

http://www.whsmith.co.uk/CatalogAndSearch/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=9781408102497

 

[taz]

The problem with being a novice, is that you don't understand what you don't know, untill you find it out.

That is, it is easy to be confident if you don't know the pitfalls. The ignorant are over confident, the experienced are over cautious.

I understand where you`re coming from

I`m known for being a bit impulsive with most things, but this is different. I am certainly taking every reply seriously as I am with the whole idea of getting to sea.

Thanks

 

[Csail]

Do it but don't coast hug bay of biscay.....go well off shore, its safer.

 

[Little Rascal]

Taz, welcome to the forum.

A couple of things to think about...

Do you plan to sail alone or with someone else? This will affect the boat you choose. Sailing alone is doable but a little more challenging...but having to rely on getting crew can be very frustrating!

What kind of budget are you on? Obviously to a point money buys you safety... a capable sea boat doesn't need to cost a lot but it's a factor.

How practical are you? Any engineering, mechanical, practical experience is likely to be helpful when it comes to engines, repairs, rigging etc.


I would say definitely book yourself in on a weekend course/taster first - it's the best way to get yourself out there and see if you want to really commit to it.

Jon

 

[taz]

Taz, welcome to the forum.

A couple of things to think about...

Q) Do you plan to sail alone or with someone else? This will affect the boat you choose. Sailing alone is doable but a little more challenging...but having to rely on getting crew can be very frustrating!

A) On purchase of a boat I`d prefer to sail with someone experienced so that I could learn on my own boat whilst still travelling.(Free trip for someone)

Q) What kind of budget are you on? Obviously to a point money buys you safety... a capable sea boat doesn't need to cost a lot but it's a factor.

A) I`m on a budget but not a small one(imo) Small to some I suppose but quite substantial for me on a first boat. I`ve seen a Catalac 8m I`d like to find out about and also a Colvic Atlanta. Two very different boats I know and a reason I`ve joined this site...read....read and read.

Q) How practical are you? Any engineering, mechanical, practical experience is likely to be helpful when it comes to engines, repairs, rigging etc.

A) I`m practical and have owned a building/ property repair company for over 20 years so not scared of work nor getting dirty in the process... very eager to learn also.


I would say definitely book yourself in on a weekend course/taster first - it's the best way to get yourself out there and see if you want to really commit to it.

Jon

Thanks for taking the time to ask these questions and the advice.

Dave

 

[William_H]

Getting into sailing

Firstly I disagree on dinghy sailing. You spend a lot of time and effort trying to avoid a capsize. A smallish cruiser 20ft or so will be self righting and enable you to make mistakes without to much trouble.
A boat of that size can pretty much handle anything. The real difficulty is for the skipper and crew. The motion is a lot more than a bigger boat, making storms a real trial.
Now you could probably set off immediately across the Bay of Biscay. However it takes real skill and experience to arrange things so that the voyage is a pleasure. If it is not a pleasure you will just turn around or never go back to sailing. The more experience I get the less I would want to do that.
Hence all the suggestions of doing a sailing course are correct. Your instructor will have the skill to make it all seem very easy. That is the trick as an instructor. To not only teach but to anticipate problems before they happen and turn stuff ups into interesting happenings. Hopefully you can get some experience before a major departure. good luck and enjoy olewill

 

[sighmoon]

A reasonable (but 30 yrs old) 17 to 20 foot trail sailer will be good to learn in as they sail like a dingy but have berths for 2 or more if you are friendly, and cost 1 to 5K, which you will probably recover as you move up the yachting ladder. And they are a bit nearer a cruising yat than a dingy as you will have a motor to play with too.

Firstly I disagree on dinghy sailing. You spend a lot of time and effort trying to avoid a capsize. A smallish cruiser 20ft or so will be self righting and enable you to make mistakes without to much trouble.

I disagree with you two, who disagree about starting off in dinghies. You do indeed spend a lot of time and effort trying to avoid a capsize in a dinghy, but that's how you learn - a dinghy spanks you if you make a mistake; a yacht politely ignores you. The former is how kung fu masters are produced; the latter is how flower arranging is taught.

You can play with a dinghy more too - you can take the rudder off and learn how to steer without it; you can sail backwards, etc ,etc Plus if you fall off a dinghy, it will probably capsize, and hence stop and still be with you.

This learning curve will prepare you for the bigger goal, but ought to be a lot of fun in itself (but get a wetsuit!).

On top of all that, a dinghy is lighter than a cruiser which means more manageable in a lot of ways - easier ashore, if you run aground, you can push it off with a foot , you can stop the boat easily, etc Starting small means that the loads are lighter, and if you get a clout across the head from the boom, it will teach you to duck, but oughtn't concuss you.

Not having an engine is also a good education. Some paddles would be useful, but it's hard work, so you'll prefer to sail whenever it's at all possible, and in the process learn some good close quarters boat handling skills, light airs sailing, cheating the tide, etc.

Unless you have a competent sailor with you, I would suggest you learn the ropes in non-tidal waters (ideally at a sailing club, where other people are about to help if it does go pear shaped).

The sportier dinghies might be too difficult for a beginner, so run your choice of boat by the wise men of the forum if you go this route.

You won't learn everything you need to cross biscay this way, so some sort of course an d experience on a bigger boat would still be a good idea. You will have fun and learn a lot though.

 

[Monique]

Welcome.

You seem to have your head screwed on straight. You do NOT need to start in dinghies.

Buy a good boat, get a course and entice some experienced sailor to join you for a while.

It is about dynamics. **** happens so think about it a bit and use your common sense.

One suggestion: buy the boat in Spain... you really don't need a Biscay passage yet; could turn you off the whole thing.

GL

 

[raven]

Hi Taz,

Have a word with Graham Wood at Cheshire Training & Leisure in Woodford (just round the corner from The Unicorn)

He is an accredited RHA Instructor for Dayskipper / Yachtmaster etc and also runs charters in (I think) Oban and Greece. I have done a couple of courses with him (Diesel & VHF) years ago and like his approach.

http://www.cheshiretraining.com/index.html

Also, never underestimate the power of this forum when it comes to advice and experience.

 

[taz]

Hi Taz,

Have a word with Graham Wood at Cheshire Training & Leisure in Woodford (just round the corner from The Unicorn)

He is an accredited RHA Instructor for Dayskipper / Yachtmaster etc and also runs charters in (I think) Oban and Greece. I have done a couple of courses with him (Diesel & VHF) years ago and like his approach.

http://www.cheshiretraining.com/index.html

Also, never underestimate the power of this forum when it comes to advice and experience.

And only about 2 miles from me...........

Thanks for all the replies so far...I`m reading and taking it all in,................honest.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Another advantage of joining a local dinghy sailing club is that it might be a source of crews for your larger project. Additionally you can keep on sailing when you aren't at your "bigger boat". Iv'e had a cruiser since 1971, but have continued dinghy racing concurrently and enjoyed both (except when I'm last in a race!).
There are plenty of excellent Clubs in Cheshire. See the RYA website. Nantwich and Border Counties and Budworth Sailing Club(nr. Northwich), come to mind.

 

[Little Rascal]

I agree with Sighmoon.

Dinghies are a good place to start and don't require you to get wet! Something like a GP14 sailed at the local club is going to get you alot of sailing for a little.

You can pick up a GP14, Enterprise, Mirror for the price of a weeks sailing course!

The sense of clarity a dinghy gives you on the water is worth having in a bigger boat.

 

[Skylark]

Hi Taz,

Greater Manchester is such a natural choice and great place from which to start your sailing career.

The "dark side" is that, like many of us, you risk the curse of a Sunday evening wasted along the A55 in ridiculously congested traffic, trying its utmost to ruin what was a great weekend sailing in North Wales.

However, that's for the future!

My advice would be to learn to sail a dinghy. Sale Water Park or Debdale both offer reasonably priced RYA courses. This will teach the basics and a strong foundation for something bigger. Something bigger generally means "less responsive and with potential to cause a huge amount of damage".

If you've already decided that you're committed, don't do the RYA Basic Navigation & Safety shorebased course. Go straight into Day Skipper theory. You've already had good advice to try Graham Wood. An alternative could be Cheadle & Marple college but courses run from September. I ran this for 19 students a couple of years ago and there is a lot of value in doing it over 6 months with a good group of like-minded individuals.

If you've done dinghy sailing then miss out RYA Comp Crew and do Day Skipper practical. Living in Manchester gives you lots of equally inconvenient options from Largs to around The Menai. The RYA website has a lot more useful info.

This should keep you busy for a while. Regretfully, as others have eluded, the more you learn the more you realise that you know very little. But, we all started with zero knowledge.

Obviously as I've suggested it, this was pretty-much how I started. It took me 11 years to cross Biscay, by the way.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll be smitten

 

[taz]

Hi Taz,

Greater Manchester is such a natural choice and great place from which to start your sailing career.

The "dark side" is that, like many of us, you risk the curse of a Sunday evening wasted along the A55 in ridiculously congested traffic, trying its utmost to ruin what was a great weekend sailing in North Wales.

However, that's for the future!

My advice would be to learn to sail a dinghy. Sale Water Park or Debdale both offer reasonably priced RYA courses. This will teach the basics and a strong foundation for something bigger. Something bigger generally means "less responsive and with potential to cause a huge amount of damage".

If you've already decided that you're committed, don't do the RYA Basic Navigation & Safety shorebased course. Go straight into Day Skipper theory. You've already had good advice to try Graham Wood. An alternative could be Cheadle & Marple college but courses run from September. I ran this for 19 students a couple of years ago and there is a lot of value in doing it over 6 months with a good group of like-minded individuals.

If you've done dinghy sailing then miss out RYA Comp Crew and do Day Skipper practical. Living in Manchester gives you lots of equally inconvenient options from Largs to around The Menai. The RYA website has a lot more useful info.

This should keep you busy for a while. Regretfully, as others have eluded, the more you learn the more you realise that you know very little. But, we all started with zero knowledge.

Obviously as I've suggested it, this was pretty-much how I started. It took me 11 years to cross Biscay, by the way.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll be smitten

11 Years to cross Biscay.wow...............I want a faster boat than yours.

Joking apart thanks for the advice....I will be looking into the courses.

PS.......I lived in Altrincham until I was fifteen..........had my first illegal pint in The Navigation, first broken bone from the Ice Rink, first Hmm..shall we say girlfriend from Hale .........the list is endless.

 

[reginaldon]

When I left Stockport it was still Cheshire - always will be to me - I was amazed to come across a v. well-stocked Chandlers in Hazel Grove, who were tuned to coastal and off shore sailing! We have a harbour, an active yacht club and no chandlers!
My son and I started with a Heron in the Straits -great little boat, I carried on developing a sea canoe club at school, only bought a small sailing cruiser late in life. Most of my early sea time was on Marple Lakes and at my grandparents place - the Ouse at Bedford - a fantastic selection of boats.

 

[taz]

When I left Stockport it was still Cheshire - always will be to me - I was amazed to come across a v. well-stocked Chandlers in Hazel Grove, who were tuned to coastal and off shore sailing! We have a harbour, an active yacht club and no chandlers!
My son and I started with a Heron in the Straits -great little boat, I carried on developing a sea canoe club at school, only bought a small sailing cruiser late in life. Most of my early sea time was on Marple Lakes and at my grandparents place - the Ouse at Bedford - a fantastic selection of boats.

I live just up the road from the Chandlers(though I think it has closed now) I live on the Hazel Grove/Bramhall border, and yes, it will always be Cheshire to me too.

 

[taz]

That`s it..........no turning back now I`ve started to buy(tacky) stuff Just need the boat.lol

 

[dt4134]

Don'y buy the boat until you're reasonably experienced. They're expensive enough without also having to cover the cost of breaking gear which you will break as a novice. On top of which a few bumps as you learn could turn out to be pretty expensive too.

You can play with dinghies if it appeals to you, but there's also a learning curve to go through when transitioning to bigger boats.

You could do the RYA Comp Crew & Day Skipper courses, but if you just do that you'll only have ten days experience when you get your bit of paper.

The best way to learn cheaply is to crew for other people. Try different skippers as it is always possible some of them aren't that good. You'll soon work out the difference. You can learn a lot from both their mistakes and what they do right.

Back that up with the RYA courses. Then try a flotilla holiday and a few charters as skipper.

At that point you'll know enough to decide whether to buy a boat and will have some sort of idea of what boat will suit you.

Beware that when you buy a boat you are in a position where your main source of learning is trial & error (usually at your own expense). You'll find a lot of boat owners find a nice comfort zone and don't move out of it and they stop learning as quickly. You want to be pretty confident in your own competence before you face the Bay of Biscay.