New Study Finds Seabirds Avoid Offshore Wind Turbines

[jordanbasset]

I for one like wind turbines in the landscape, I find them both dramatic and majestic
Onshore wind is also one of the cheapest, if not cheapest form of energy production, together with offshore wind and solar
In an age of high energy costs, this alone would make it worthwhile
But taken with increasing problems of energy supply from some not very nice countries around the world, it's a no brainer
Of course the wind doesn't blow all the time so we do need alternatives for when it doesn't
Solar has to be in the mix, would also like to see much more investigation/use of tidal.
In addition nuclear power will still be required
For the short to medium term we will also still need gas but as more wind, solar and tidal come online that need will be reduced over time

 

[franksingleton]

I for one like wind turbines in the landscape, I find them both dramatic and majestic
Onshore wind is also one of the cheapest, if not cheapest form of energy production, together with offshore wind and solar
In an age of high energy costs, this alone would make it worthwhile
But taken with increasing problems of energy supply from some not very nice countries around the world, it's a no brainer
Of course the wind doesn't blow all the time so we do need alternatives for when it doesn't
Solar has to be in the mix, would also like to see much more investigation/use of tidal.
In addition nuclear power will still be required
For the short to medium term we will also still need gas but as more wind, solar and tidal come online that need will be reduced over time

We also need energy storage and carbon sequestration. I know the latter has been rubbished in the past but there was a recent news item about a trial with carbon capture built into a power station. That is sensible as costs usually reduce I time.

 

[Bouba]

We also need energy storage and carbon sequestration. I know the latter has been rubbished in the past but there was a recent news item about a trial with carbon capture built into a power station. That is sensible as costs usually reduce I time.

What the government needs to do is have a long sit down with Elon Musk and get some proper energy storage

 

[Laser310]

There are very few landscapes anywhere in Europe which have not drastically been changed by man over the last 1000 years. Be that deforestation and replanting with different tree species, agriculture and grazing.

Just think of a wind turbine as a different species of tree. May be they should just paint them different shades of green/brown?

I'm not saying they are 100% unchanged..., but in many places, the general view is remarkably similar - except for massive windfarms on the ridges.

I like to hike.

This past fall, I spent a month or more traveling and hiking in Spain; everywhere from the SW near Gibraltar, Tarifa, Cadiz.., to the Picos de Europa and further East into the Pyrenees.

I was mostly trying to get as far from the cities as possible.

on many occasions, I managed to find old abandoned mountain-top redoubts or fortresses in varying degrees of disrepair. There are many of these all over Spain: usually they have a narrow trail winding up to them.

One could look out over the valleys below, imagining those who were there, 500.., 700 or more years ago, apprecaiting the strategic importance of these locations for monitoring activity in these valleys. Mostly what I saw was agricultural land, a little village here and there; more or less what it was 1000 years ago; not really any tall buildings, or obviously modern development. Sure, if i looked closely,, or took out my bino's, I might see a tractor, sheds with metal roofs, a roadway, and so on.., but the general aspect at first glance was probably pretty unchanged...

except for the ridges, shorn of whatever vegetation there was, with massive turbines sticking high above along their entire length, one after another.

They are so prominent on the ridgelines that they dominate the view, really detracting from the overall experience.

because of where they are located these windfarms have a huge effect on our experience in the mountains.

I guess to some this might not seem like a big deal, but it is to me. I think it's really important that people have places they can go and get away from modern development; at least it is to me.

That's one of the reasons I do so much ocean sailing; I like to get out there and get away.., to look out over the ocean and see nothing but the waves.

It's profoundly depressing to me that people won't be able to hike to the top of a ridge and view the next ridge over in something approaching it's natural state.

 

[westernman]

Mostly what I saw was agricultural land, a little village here and there; more or less what it was 1000 years ago

Agricultural land looks nothing like it did 1000 years ago.

 

[Bouba]

Let’s clear up this argument once and for all....wind turbines are ugly and use up huge resources to build, transport, install and dispose of...and it all probably happens before they ever repay the carbon deficit...especially when you include all the birds they kill. Although, for some strange and as yet unexplained reason...lighthouses really look good and enhances the view....

 

[westernman]

Let’s clear up this argument once and for all....wind turbines are ugly and use up huge resources to build, transport, install and dispose of...and it all probably happens before they ever repay the carbon deficit...especially when you include all the birds they kill. Although, for some strange and as yet unexplained reason...lighthouses really look good and enhances the view....

Wind turbines are almost as good as nuclear power stations for CO2 emissions per TWh and for total lifecycle costs prorated over TWhs produced.

Life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions of energy sources - Wikipedia

 

[SaltyC]

Afraid I'm with Bouba! Wind turbines are ugly on land, and an abomination at sea.

Yes as stated early in the discussion , we can sail through them - if our course is parallel to the grid, but would you, if singlehanded want to sail through in F4 -5? I do Not it, becomes a NO GO zone. Many areas have now become not navigable to singlehanders - a pleasant but long day passage is now non tenable, 18 hours!

Yes, we need to look at the damage to the environment BUT we need to be honest. Wind is free, Whooppeee! but no tree hugger mentions the turbine blades are non recyclable, the current proposal is to bury in landfill, how much oil is used in their production?

We forget/ don't acknowledge the environmental devestation of the extraction of rare earth metals for the permanent magnets to make the turbines. I understand it takes 9 tonnes of earth removal for 1 kg of rare earth amterials, the proposed turbines on Dogger Bank need 600kg of rare earth materials each. This is destruction on a scale of the rain forest, I hope someone can give me facts to contradict.

In the meantime I will avoid the windfarms and with irony! watch the 20 CTV's burning 400ltrs / day of diesel going out to maintain them

 

[farmer.leo]

This is like Pfizer producing a report to say their jab was safe. We would never believe them would we?

Right.

And notice how the post doesn't say "a study with an alternative view regarding wind turbines killing birds" but instead
declares "disproves". Chances are these days when somebody says "debunked" or "disproved" you're able to magically
determine their political and/or financial affiliation.

 

[Supertramp]

There are quite a few belief systems that we don't call "religion". They are not self identified as such, so perhaps politeness dictates we ignore the parallels.
Having said that, I've known a bartender working for 9 years - and he hasn't once seen a drunk driving accident.

Perhaps the animals at greatest risk from wind farms are Dolphins and Wales. I have not witnessed anything first hand, but have read about it.
Yet how are we supposed to believe anybody, anyway? It seems one certain truth after another, defamed during its blossom at your peril, is reversed each month.

As a biologist once i understand the difficulty of monitoring and comparing the behaviour of animals, fish and birds. But I remain certain that human presence and activity affects wildlife. I sail off N Wales and last week encountered the usual pod of dolphins. Come the warmer months and the dolphins are seen far less often. Could be fish distribution but I suspect they avoid jetskis and generally heavier traffic in the summer months.

On the subject of Wales (I know you meant Whales!), sailing around the Llyn peninsula is made more pleasant by the absence of wind farms on or off land.

Electricity is the way forward but as others have said we are making deep and hard to reverse changes to local areas. Nuclear power almost seems less disruptive!

 

[Zing]

Let’s clear up this argument once and for all....wind turbines are ugly and use up huge resources to build, transport, install and dispose of...and it all probably happens before they ever repay the carbon deficit...especially when you include all the birds they kill. Although, for some strange and as yet unexplained reason...lighthouses really look good and enhances the view....

It’s all about scale, mass, proportion and intrinsic ugliness. A pot of brown paint spattered randomly will never enhance the Mona Lisa. A solitary Beauty spot might. Similarly 200 turbines spattered over the landscape as far as you can see will only destroy its beauty, whereas one solitary turbine might be an attractive curiosity.

I drove through the Scottish Borders a few weeks ago. Many hundreds of turbines are there now and it’s a tragic destruction of a wonderful landscape. This is not the answer.

 

[capnsensible]

 

[LittleSister]

Of course the wind doesn't blow all the time so we do need alternatives for when it doesn't
Solar has to be in the mix, would also like to see much more investigation/use of tidal.
In addition nuclear power will still be required
For the short to medium term we will also still need gas but as more wind, solar and tidal come online that need will be reduced over time

We also need energy storage and carbon sequestration.

Funny that no one has mentioned reducing energy consumption!

Let’s clear up this argument once and for all....wind turbines are ugly and use up huge resources to build, transport, install and dispose of...and it all probably happens before they ever repay the carbon deficit...especially when you include all the birds they kill.

I blame all those people driving round in Teslas!

 

[Bouba]

Funny that no one has mentioned reducing energy consumption!



I blame all those people driving round in Teslas!

I have no guilt...I get my electricity from England

 

[Zing]

View attachment 152532

That one plant at Drax generated almost as much power as all our land based turbines put together. To replace all our generation with wind means we need about 10 times the turbines and lots more storage too. It’s not obviously better than 10 of these.

 

[Laser310]

View attachment 152532

fine..., nut the energy produced by these is enormous - they probably produce orders of magnitude more energy per M^2 occupied than a wind turbine - and they produce it 24/7

and if it were a nuke plant it would be even more true.

the whole country could be powered by nuke plants with what would overall be a very small footprint.., leaving our countryside un-desecrated

 

[franksingleton]

Funny that no one has mentioned reducing energy consumption!

Agreed. But, we still need energy.

 

[westernman]

Yes, we need to look at the damage to the environment BUT we need to be honest. Wind is free, Whooppeee! but no tree hugger mentions the turbine blades are non recyclable, the current proposal is to bury in landfill, how much oil is used in their production?

See wikipedia reference above. People have worked out the total cost to the environment for different methods of energy production. And also the total number of deaths per TWh of production.

Coal fired power stations kill the most people by far per TWh. And nuclear the least. And wind turbines relatively few people as well. Solar power does less well. Presumably too many people falling of roofs installing the panels.

 

[boomerangben]

I’ve seen wind turbines popping up all over Scotland, had to plot them when charts were updated as they were built, I love to walk the highlands for its grand beauty. I don’t mind wind turbines. They are there. We need them at the moment. Whether it is right or not is up for debate. But they are there and society dictates we have to accept them.

What I find ironic is a bunch of sailors, whose pride and joy is a plastic hull, aluminium or composite spars and oil derived sails sailing across pristine, otherwise uncluttered seas in their bright white (other colours are available) boats harnessing the wind for their own enjoyment. And they have the hypocrisy to say wind turbines are an eyesore whilst they themselves spoil the pristine view of many a coastal walker and indeed of other sailors who would rather see an open ocean

Yes my tongue is in my cheek but only a little

 

[GraemeS]

Funny that no one has mentioned reducing energy consumption!

That's right and the huge number of humans.