sailorman
Well-Known Member
The stn in Woodbridge is very close to Frank Knights & the Tide Mill
New sailing couple looking for advice on the east coast
- Thread starter Usangi
- Start date
The stn in Woodbridge is very close to Frank Knights & the Tide Mill
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
I got a taxi from Ipswich station to SYH (Levington) last year to pick my car up.
I was surprised how expensive it was - close to £20.
My flight from Amsterdam to Southend was only £24!!.
Usangi
Active Member
I think something closer to Ipswich is what we need to be looking for. Orwell Yacht Club looks ideal. Only a 10 min cycle.
DavidofMersea
Well-Known Member
Nobody has mentioned Mersea. We always have water, and that is fundamental for sailing. The anchorage is sheltered, and there is a good area for sailing, rather than just up and down a river. Up the Blackwater or Colne or Burnham or the Orwell and Stour all easy for week end
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Whats the connection with British Rail like, the OP hasnt a car
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm well thank you for that insight into that experience of buying boats from his yard. I was certainly not aware of that, would suggest that the Gumtree ads should provide a wealth of boat gear being off loaded by other sailors yachting persons.
DavidofMersea
Well-Known Member
But he does hire cars.
There have been plans for a railway to Mersea for almost 100 years, but it has not yet been built, so if the OP can wait awhile he could come by train
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
There is a regular bus service from the station at Ipswich to Shotley @ £4 return. Obviously cheaper to just get to one of the clubs etc closer to town. But, getting the bus to Pin Mill might be a drag, it's a tidy walk from Chelmondiston to Pin Mill. Although i see mention of cycling, wouldn't be the end of the World to cycle to Pin Mill or get the bus and cycle from Chelmondiston (if bikes are allowed on the bus.
The £15k budget opens up a lot of possibilities for a decent boat, big enough for four and with a few creature comforts. Don't be put off by any comments about the bigger boats and size of your normal crew. The two of you should be able to comfortably handle anything 30-40 feet in sensible conditions.
Don't worry about hot water, the kettle is good enough. A decent toilet is essential, as is a cooker.
A few Westerlys are in budget, the Konsort, Berwick (bilge keels) or the fin keel version, the Longbow. The Centaur Bru mentioned is also in budget, but i'd be inclined to go a little bigger with the available budget. A Sadler 29 is also within the budget.
The £15k budget opens up a lot of possibilities for a decent boat, big enough for four and with a few creature comforts. Don't be put off by any comments about the bigger boats and size of your normal crew. The two of you should be able to comfortably handle anything 30-40 feet in sensible conditions.
Don't worry about hot water, the kettle is good enough. A decent toilet is essential, as is a cooker.
A few Westerlys are in budget, the Konsort, Berwick (bilge keels) or the fin keel version, the Longbow. The Centaur Bru mentioned is also in budget, but i'd be inclined to go a little bigger with the available budget. A Sadler 29 is also within the budget.
Bru
Well-Known Member
I'd caution against the Sadler 29. My mate has one and it's a very quick, and very nice, boat for it's size for sure but it's also very tender (i.e. it heels over quite a lot when you step on and off and tends to rock around a fair bit). That's fine if you value speed over comfort but even I find it a bit annoying after a while and it might not be the ideal choice for the OP (I also don't like the narrow sloping side decks which are further cluttered by the genoa track, getting to and from the cockpit is not as easy as on many other boats of a similar size)
There's a railway station at North Fambridge by the way
There's a railway station at North Fambridge by the way
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm well a cheap boat budget of circa 15k then would I suggest rule out Andy as a possible boat yard.
No mention or suggestion so far as a budget for mooring, berthing, marina and annual maintenance then, these are of course deciding factors when considering a base for the Sailing ?
No mention or suggestion so far as a budget for mooring, berthing, marina and annual maintenance then, these are of course deciding factors when considering a base for the Sailing ?
Usangi
Active Member
I think the difficulty with novices like myself is that we're not quite sure what cheap means in the world of sailing! However, maybe it'll be useful if I lay out my thinking.
We'd like, over the summer, to spend quite a lot of the weekends sailing, and maybe even a week at one point. We want to improve our boat handling and general confidence on the boat. We like the idea of being able to also go somewhere and relax if the weather is not conducive to sailing, hence the desire to have something with some creature comforts.
While our budget for the boat can go to 15K, we want to keep our annual costs down. We also don't want to lose a lot of money if we decide to sell the boat after the summer, although I realise boats sell for lower prices just before the winter. Obviously the higher the initial outlay the more one is at risk of losing when selling the boat on.
Writing this down however, I'm being drawn more to either seeing if we could find some kind souls to allow us onto their boat for some trips. Or actually buying something much smaller (back to around 22ft) - sailing ready but without lots of creature comforts. Then seeing our weekends slightly more like camping than a cottage!
Usangi
Active Member
There's a railway station at North Fambridge by the way
Unfortunately its still a bit tricky to get to from Cambridge via the train. Thanks for the suggestion though, will keep it in mind!
Usangi
Active Member
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
IMO, that's a very bad idea. You've already expressed your desires for a few creature comforts and wanting to weekend aboard, with the odd week. A 22 footer will be like camping in a cheap tent, within less than a season you will either want to get out of sailing (possibly exacerbated by having the wrong boat) or you will want to sell it and buy bigger, a costly mistake.
If you buy the bigger boat now you can comfortably stay aboard for weekends or weeks at a time, even if the weather is a bit pants. You could just about live on a 31ft Westerly full time. I doubt you will be saying, after a few months, "i wish we had less space". If you don't like sailing you'll be back to having a boat for sale, but you won't lose a fortune on a shrewdly purchased £15k boat.
Running costs. (30ish ft boat)
Marina berth about £3k, swinging mooring about £1000 (Pin Mill etc, club mooring less)
You will need to come out of the water annually for maintenance and anti-foul. Or for about £200 you can get a Summer special deal in one of the marinas, lift, scrub and relaunch with a week on the hard. Being on the hard with water and electric, in the Summer, makes this an attractive offer, IMO. Beats grubbing around a muddy boatyard in the Winter.
Another useful option worth considering is a "Winter afloat" deal at one of the marinas. About £600 will get you five months on a pontoon berth. There will be plenty of bright Winter days where you can have a weekend on the boat (especially if it has heating). A marina berth makes this more attractive than paddling through the mud in the Winter.
Insurance, circa £200-£250
Allow £100 for anti-foul and an anode.
You'll need an allowance for repairs and maintenance, but that's a hard one to put a figure on.
Bru
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Paul, you're more likely to be put off by a small boat, given what you want to do, that enjoy it
(Fair point by the way Usangi about the trains, I'd forgotten there's a direct service from Cambridge to Ipswich. That very much swings the balance in favour of the Orwell)
(Fair point by the way Usangi about the trains, I'd forgotten there's a direct service from Cambridge to Ipswich. That very much swings the balance in favour of the Orwell)
Capt. Clueless
Well-Known Member
Yes, I got the impression that the starter boat would be a cheapy to practice on, however a budget was later mentioned of up to £15k. I'd be looking to buy a house for that.
DoubleEnder
Well-Known Member
The Orwell is a great river to sail on and Harwich harbour offers a nice spacious but sheltered place to sail in flat water even if there is quite a lot of wind. Pin Mill is lovely, and Kings is a great and helpful yard, who may well have a swinging mooring. Ipswich has marina berths which are probably cheaper than the marinas further downstream. I also like the Blackwater, quite "spacious". You could look at West Mersea or Tollesbury maybe, and there are all sorts of sailing clubs with moorings.
I always think the Crouch is a bit narrow and boring but it's never been my home river.
I think the OP should think carefully about annual budget, as well as initial purchase price. It's not hard to persuade yourself to spend £xx on a lovely boat, and you will find a great Centaur, Sadler or whatever, with a decent newish engine, good upholstery, sails, and most of the gear you need. But then the bills come in: mooring, insurance, haul out, anti foul, a few little repairs, engine service.... And when you have paid them all they come in again, and again and again. Every year. Think carefully about these. Get prices and quotes and adjust your budget and expectations accordingly. The market is great for buyers in this segment, but that means it is not good for sellers. Don't bank on selling at the end of the summer unless you're ready to take a really big hit. And while you are waiting to sell it will need insuring, mooring etc etc
I don't want to be too negative, jsut realistic.
If you are thinking about using the boat as a weekend cottage when the weather isn't great then you absolutely need to be on a pontoon, not a swinging mooring.
And you should definitely buy a car. Trains are a pain, expensive, unreliable, difficult to board when carrying an inflatable dinghy....and the timetables will not be adjusted to suit tides and weather. Tides are in charge especially on the East Coast (which is a beautiful sailing ground). Especially if you occasionally envisage inviting friends to join you. My son just bought a viable jalopy for £500. That would probably just about cover 4 return train tickets. Buy a car and look at all the places mentioned here, not just those that have the illusion of train service. I kept my boat afloat one winter in Ipswich which really was a 10 minute walk from the station, and even that was a pain.
I always think the Crouch is a bit narrow and boring but it's never been my home river.
I think the OP should think carefully about annual budget, as well as initial purchase price. It's not hard to persuade yourself to spend £xx on a lovely boat, and you will find a great Centaur, Sadler or whatever, with a decent newish engine, good upholstery, sails, and most of the gear you need. But then the bills come in: mooring, insurance, haul out, anti foul, a few little repairs, engine service.... And when you have paid them all they come in again, and again and again. Every year. Think carefully about these. Get prices and quotes and adjust your budget and expectations accordingly. The market is great for buyers in this segment, but that means it is not good for sellers. Don't bank on selling at the end of the summer unless you're ready to take a really big hit. And while you are waiting to sell it will need insuring, mooring etc etc
I don't want to be too negative, jsut realistic.
If you are thinking about using the boat as a weekend cottage when the weather isn't great then you absolutely need to be on a pontoon, not a swinging mooring.
And you should definitely buy a car. Trains are a pain, expensive, unreliable, difficult to board when carrying an inflatable dinghy....and the timetables will not be adjusted to suit tides and weather. Tides are in charge especially on the East Coast (which is a beautiful sailing ground). Especially if you occasionally envisage inviting friends to join you. My son just bought a viable jalopy for £500. That would probably just about cover 4 return train tickets. Buy a car and look at all the places mentioned here, not just those that have the illusion of train service. I kept my boat afloat one winter in Ipswich which really was a 10 minute walk from the station, and even that was a pain.
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Rafiki
Well-Known Member
I think you will struggle without a car I'm afraid. There is such a lot of 'clobber' required for sailing ( not the least of which is all the food and drink for a week-end), and all the 'stuff' required for maintainace - less if you bought a new boat ( £75 - 100k ouch). I must admit to buying reasonable large cars, just for the sailing stuff -- but they drive so much nicer don't they. Come to think of it, that's the same with boats !
James W
Well-Known Member
Yes to the Deben, but no to Andy Seedhouse, especially if you're looking for something nice. Andy's boats often need huge amounts of work and eBay offers far more these days in terms of quality boats at bargain prices. Remember, it's a buyer's market, the asking price is not the selling price and 15K will get you a LOT of boat these days.
If you're looking at distance from the Train, most places on the Orwell can be cycled to from Ipswich train station. There's also North Fambridge, just a very short walk to Fambridge Yacht Haven, or Burnham on Crouch....handy if you work in London?
In terms of buying boats, don't buy far from where you want to sail, if you want to keep costs down! Keep an eye on Woodrolfe brokers at Tollesbury, Boatshed Suffolk, Boatshed Essex, Clarke and Carter and Westwater Yacht Sales.
And enjoy the search, it's half the fun!
If you're looking at distance from the Train, most places on the Orwell can be cycled to from Ipswich train station. There's also North Fambridge, just a very short walk to Fambridge Yacht Haven, or Burnham on Crouch....handy if you work in London?
In terms of buying boats, don't buy far from where you want to sail, if you want to keep costs down! Keep an eye on Woodrolfe brokers at Tollesbury, Boatshed Suffolk, Boatshed Essex, Clarke and Carter and Westwater Yacht Sales.
And enjoy the search, it's half the fun!
PeterWright
Well-Known Member
Hi Usangi.
Much more about your needs now than when I previously posted. No car makes a significant difference, but far from impossible - people my age all started out like that. However, cycling from the railway station with all your clobber is challenging, especially when it's p-ing down, which it occasionally does even in the Eastern Riviera. Apart from Ipswich, the River Crouch is readly accessible by train via Liverpool Street and Wickford. I live in Burnham and still have reason to visit Cambridge several times a year, sometimes by car and others by train. The biggest problem with the train, frankly, is the long haul from Cambridge Station to the centre. The Crouch Valley line from Wickford stops at both Fambridge and Burnham both of which boast marinas and swinging moorings and, in Burnham, more sailing clubs than you can shake a stick at.
Back on the Orwell, anywhere outside Ipswich would be train and bus. I know that, if you ask the driver of the Felixstowe bus nicely, he will drop you off at the end of Stratton Hall drift from where SYH is a shortish walk...
It also now seems to me that your looking for something bigger than the 18-22 ft. range which, as you suggest, relates to camping. but much more cramped because you can't just step outside to stretch your legs. At that sort of size, even with 2 on board, you need to climb over someone each time you move, whether in the cockpit or down below. Someone mentioned a Westerly Konsort (LOA 28'10") as an option for you, this would be ideal if you can find one at the right price - and that's no impossible - a proper little ship that sails well and would look after you. I know a couple from Cambrifge, of similar yars to me, who keep one at SYH, last time I met them afloat, they were sailing into Weymouth....
I'm becoming more convinced that you'd be better off starting by sailing other people's boats - it's dirt cheap compared to ownership and would give you the opportunity to decide what you're really looking for and to learn your way around our beautiful coastline, including the relative difficulties of getting to/from the various ports. Most yachties are pretty good at public transport because, if you drive to your boat at A and sail to B over the weekend, you find you are without your car and need to get back to work.
Lastly, I'm afraid I don't understand how buying close to where you want to sail will help keep costs down. Buy the right boat. If it's the wrong end of the country, seek help on this board with delivery. By the time your boat arrives at her new home, you'll know an awful lot more about her and your confidence will have increased beyond recognition. Boats were never meant to travel by lorry!
Peter
p.s. I see there' a Konsort asking £16,950 in the Tide Mill (Woodbridge) looks a little tired down below, but otherwise sound - I'm sure they'd accept an offer...... P.
Much more about your needs now than when I previously posted. No car makes a significant difference, but far from impossible - people my age all started out like that. However, cycling from the railway station with all your clobber is challenging, especially when it's p-ing down, which it occasionally does even in the Eastern Riviera. Apart from Ipswich, the River Crouch is readly accessible by train via Liverpool Street and Wickford. I live in Burnham and still have reason to visit Cambridge several times a year, sometimes by car and others by train. The biggest problem with the train, frankly, is the long haul from Cambridge Station to the centre. The Crouch Valley line from Wickford stops at both Fambridge and Burnham both of which boast marinas and swinging moorings and, in Burnham, more sailing clubs than you can shake a stick at.
Back on the Orwell, anywhere outside Ipswich would be train and bus. I know that, if you ask the driver of the Felixstowe bus nicely, he will drop you off at the end of Stratton Hall drift from where SYH is a shortish walk...
It also now seems to me that your looking for something bigger than the 18-22 ft. range which, as you suggest, relates to camping. but much more cramped because you can't just step outside to stretch your legs. At that sort of size, even with 2 on board, you need to climb over someone each time you move, whether in the cockpit or down below. Someone mentioned a Westerly Konsort (LOA 28'10") as an option for you, this would be ideal if you can find one at the right price - and that's no impossible - a proper little ship that sails well and would look after you. I know a couple from Cambrifge, of similar yars to me, who keep one at SYH, last time I met them afloat, they were sailing into Weymouth....
I'm becoming more convinced that you'd be better off starting by sailing other people's boats - it's dirt cheap compared to ownership and would give you the opportunity to decide what you're really looking for and to learn your way around our beautiful coastline, including the relative difficulties of getting to/from the various ports. Most yachties are pretty good at public transport because, if you drive to your boat at A and sail to B over the weekend, you find you are without your car and need to get back to work.
Lastly, I'm afraid I don't understand how buying close to where you want to sail will help keep costs down. Buy the right boat. If it's the wrong end of the country, seek help on this board with delivery. By the time your boat arrives at her new home, you'll know an awful lot more about her and your confidence will have increased beyond recognition. Boats were never meant to travel by lorry!
Peter
p.s. I see there' a Konsort asking £16,950 in the Tide Mill (Woodbridge) looks a little tired down below, but otherwise sound - I'm sure they'd accept an offer...... P.
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