New sailing couple looking for advice on the east coast

[Usangi]

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce myself, and also, if its not too cheeky for a first post, see if I could get a little advice.

My wife and I are new to sailing. We did a competent crew course last year in the sunny climates of Tenerife, and are doing a day skipper practical course in March this year. We also went sailing on the Orwell for a weekend last year and loved it.

We'd like to do a lot more sailing in the summer and, living in Cambridge, the east coast is perfectly situated as well as being nice and quiet. And the tides would definitely test novices like us!

One idea is to buy a little boat and play around with it along the river, venturing further as we get a bit more confident. It'd need to be big enough for us to sleep on for a couple of nights. I guess a swinging mooring would be the best bet, but easily accessible. But it'd be nice to have a hot shower in the morning before setting off on a day's sailing. Is it likely to get a swinging mooring for this summer?

The other idea would be to find somewhere on the east coast which hired out smallish sailing boats to rather inexperienced sailors but (fingers firmly crossed) with a day skipper qualification. Again, we'd prefer something we could sleep in for a couple of nights. Anywhere on the east coast that does this?

We're aware neither option are cheap, but would be great if we could keep costs down somehow!

Thanks so much for any advice!

 

[Capt Popeye]

:encouragement:

OK then I would suggest that you give a broker named Andy Seedhouse a look at, first on the internet then perhaps a site visit at Woodbridge, Suffolk. They stock a few boats from Dinghies, Motor Boats and Yachts in their yard and they can sometimes offer moorings all seem to be at, what I would call, 'starter prices', there are also other boat yards in and around Woodbridge that you could visit whilst up there.

The river Deben is what I would refer to as a safe and picturesque river free from commercial traffic and trailer boats as there is very little public launching slipways available so the Speed boaters usually go else where :nonchalance:

Good luck in your new ventures :encouragement:

 

[Capt. Clueless]

Def Andy Seedhouse. We bought our Snapdragon off him and James. Kept it in the yard till we'd finished some refurb work for 40 quid a month inc. use of water & 240v elec.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I would suggest the Orwell would be a better location for the OP. It's easier for them to get too and it's a better place for a novice, IMO. Yes there is some commercial traffic, but there is no bar at the entrance, easy access 24/7 and easy access to the Stour. Between the two rivers it's rare not to be able to find somewhere for a sail, extreme weather excepted.

There are a few locations with swinging moorings on the Orwell, Pin Mill and Suffolk Yacht Harbour being the two most likely places to be able to get a mooring this Summer. Pin Mill would be the quicker to get to from Cambridge i think. There are toilets ashore, not sure about showers though. Access is slightly tide dependent, unlike SYH. Not sure what facilities are available to swinging berth holders at SYH.

Pin Mill http://www.harrykings.co.uk/
SYH http://www.syharbour.co.uk/index.php/marina

 

[PaulRainbow]

Def Andy Seedhouse. We bought our Snapdragon off him and James. Kept it in the yard till we'd finished some refurb work for 40 quid a month inc. use of water & 240v elec.

Talking of Snapdragons : http://www.harrykings.co.uk/snapdragon-21-1800-vat/

Any good ?

 

[sailorman]

Talking of Snapdragons : http://www.harrykings.co.uk/snapdragon-21-1800-vat/

Any good ?

with a deal on a inside mooring too no doubt :encouragement:

 

[Capt. Clueless]

We bought our Snappy 23 from Andy Seedhouse for 950 quid. Spent a few months in our spare time totally refurbishing her and then launched her into Ullswater in the Lakedistrict.

 

[xyachtdave]

Buying a boat and mucking about in a sheltered estuary is a good route to sailing success.

If you kept a boat in a port like Southwold, Lowestoft, Ramsgate, Brighton, Dover etc, etc by the time you've stashed your fenders or put away your lines you can be rolling about in the sea.

The estuary river ports - Orwell, Burnham, Medway, Blackwater etc all offer quite a few miles of sheltered water which is ideal to learn the ropes.

Start carefully in tame weather in your local river and find your way about, move on to stronger breeze in the now familiar waters - you can concentrate on sailing/boat handling and don't need to worry about the nav - then you're ready for settled weather coastal sailing.

Fast forward 10 years and you'll be taking a 36 footer out on Christamas Eve on your own to check out storm Barbara!

Finding a friendly club looks like your first move.

 

[Usangi]

Thanks all. I think a little weekend trip up there to talk to people and have a look at a few boats is in order.

I was thinking of a slightly bigger boat, something around 28ft. We might have some friends join us in the summer for a weekend or two, and it'd be nice to be able to accommodate them. Although willing to be persuaded otherwise if you think four adults on a 22 ft boat for a weekend would be doable. The cheaper price/mooring is certainly appealing.

We'd also like something that is pretty much ready to sail, and well kitted out inside, e.g. heater, cooker, hot water. Don't mind sailing in bad weather, but needs to be warm and comfortable inside. Anyway, will be doing lots of research on this over the next few weeks as realise I'm a little wet behind the ears with boat buying!

Swinging mooring would be fine but I think it needs to be deep water. Will include Pin Mill on our trip itinerary. We passed it when we were on the Orwell and it looked a nice place.

Thanks all! Any more advice definitely appreciated.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi Usangi and welcome,

So, you've been bitten by the bug - I'm sure it will bring you both great pleasure for many years to come.

I can't really help you with the charter option as the last time I chartered a yacht in the UK was in 1971 out of Maldon, I assume there are still some charter businesses around, but with the advent of cheap flights, most charterers head off for the warmth of the Med or Carribean. I have a feeling that this option won't suit you too well, because you will charter for maybe a couple of weeks in the year, rather than getting to sail most weekends.

Another option you haven't mentioned is to join a club and learn your sailing on other people's boats. It's certainly the cheapest and probably the fastest way to pick up knowledge and sea miles - the most you're likely to have to pay s a contribution to the on board food kitty and the odd round in the club bar. If you're willing t go racing, there are boats crying out for regular crew and it's certainly the fastest way to learn to sail well. For this option, I can personally recommend the Haven Ports Yacht Club at Suffolk Yacht Harbour:

https://hpyc.com/

On Friday 5 May we will be holding our annual "Welcome to new members" reception in our clubhouse, a converted lightship moored in the harbour. Of course, if you plan to do your Coastal Skipper courses with East Anglian Sea School, you'll probably know the lightship by then.

In price terms, now is a good time to buy second hand While Andy Seedhouse clearly has some happy customers, some of the craft he sells are best described as projects. I would recommend not sticking yourself to a vendor, but deciding on the spec you want, then looking widely for the best match from whatever vendor is offering. The internet is a great tool for this. Finding a swinging mooring should not be a problem. You won't get the prime spot just off the steps at Waldringfield, but Pin mill or SYH as suggested would certainly have something on offer. For a small yacht, you might find more shelter than either of these on the Orwell Yacht Club moorings. I have no idea of their pricing policy, but club moorings are generally cheaper than commercial ones. Equally, I don't know about shower availability there.

The Orwell and the Deben are equally good rivers to learn on - I started sailing at Waldringfield before I was born, according to my late Mum. The Orwell requires a bit more awareness of commercial shipping, particularly through Harwich harbour, but a yacht track is well defined there and little shipping goes up to Ipswich these days. The Deben requires close attention when you cross the bar to go to sea, and beating up to Woodbridge through the Waldringfield moorings can be challenging these days.

I should point out that I am a member of HPYC and have a personal interest in SYH, where I also moor my boat. If showers are of particular importance, this winter we're completely rebuilding one of our three shower blocks and plan to follow with the other 2 in subsequent winters. Also, for our swinging moorings, you can step aboard your tender from a pontoon in the shelter of the harbour, rather than from glutinous mud covered by a foot of water.

Having thought while I type, I would recommend you get more experience on someone else's boat before buying. This will also hep you to get more idea about the kind of boat you want to buy so you get the spec right'

Hope this helps,

Peter

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm why I suggested Andy Seedhouse on the Deben at Woodbridge was he (they now) offers very reasonable priced craft plus DIY yard time, launching. local moorings and most probably (if you ask him) keep an eye on your craft for you.

I find /found the Deben to be a relatively safe and easy river to learn upon with soft mud everywhere to spent ones learning time on (shan't do that again sort of thing) a few stop overs, Woodbridge, The Tips, Walderingfield, The Rocks, Ramsholt and Bawdsey and the Ferry. Some now have a Pub or Two, Cafe or Two (or a Museum when open again) in which to spend some time before sailing back again.
Never found the Bawdsey Bar to be much of a problem but that's probably because partly bought up there, so often in and out frequently.

 

[dolabriform]

Humm why I suggested Andy Seedhouse on the Deben at Woodbridge was he (they now) offers very reasonable priced craft plus DIY yard time, launching. local moorings and most probably (if you ask him) keep an eye on your craft for you.

I find /found the Deben to be a relatively safe and easy river to learn upon with soft mud everywhere to spent ones learning time on (shan't do that again sort of thing) a few stop overs, Woodbridge, The Tips, Walderingfield, The Rocks, Ramsholt and Bawdsey and the Ferry. Some now have a Pub or Two, Cafe or Two (or a Museum when open again) in which to spend some time before sailing back again.

+1

 

[PaulRainbow]

I was thinking of a slightly bigger boat, something around 28ft. We might have some friends join us in the summer for a weekend or two, and it'd be nice to be able to accommodate them. Although willing to be persuaded otherwise if you think four adults on a 22 ft boat for a weekend would be doable.

IMO 22ft is too small for four adults for the weekend. 28ft would be my minimum.

Some idea of budget would be helpful for boat suggestions.

A totally ready to sail used boat is a rare beast.

 

[Bru]

I don't know of anywhere hereabouts that charters small or small-ish boats, can't help you there

We bought our first 23 footer from Andy Seedhouse and have no regrets but a couple of caveats. One is that Andy specialised in boats that, with the best will in the world, are a bit tired and in need of T.L.C. Nothing wrong with that if you're up for it but if you want to get out and have some fun this summer... Another is that the boats he sells have usually been stripped virtually bare so there tends to be a fair bit to spend on essential kit like lines, fenders etc. etc

There are bargains to be had on the private market where people are giving up and very often leaving virtually everything aboard which can save several hundred pounds (or more - our first chandlery bill came to very nearly a grand and we hadn't gone mad. Mooring lines, fenders, lifejackets, etc. Just the basics but it adds up)

As for location, from Cambridge anywhere around the Thames Estuary will do you nicely.

The Deben is fine and may suit you well but I note the comments about easy access, hot showers etc. so I'm going to put in my usual plug for Fambridge Yacht Station (I ought to get commission!)

Sheltered upriver swinging moorings, car parking, excellent showers, a tender store, free weekend trot boat, good pub. access to the river pontoon (free for an hour or two, a relatively modest overnight charge if you stay alongside) and excellent on site services and facilities

We've got a lovely little club at the Yacht Station ad it's a very friendly and no nonsense sort of place

There's the whole of the Crouch and the Roach to explore without going out to sea, several excellent anchorages and an overnight or two in Burnham for a run ashore is not to be sniffed at

We looked extensively at where to keep that first little 23 footer and chose Fambridge and we're still here seven years later and still happy with the choice

It may not suit you but it's worth a look as well as the Deben, Orwell et al (all of which have their plus points I don't deny)

Be warned, it's addictive as mentioned! We started out on the same journey as you those seven years ago and we've since upgraded twice, first to a 27 footer and now to a 33 footer which we are semi-liveaboard on!

If you need any advice or want to touch base with someone who's (relatively) recently done pretty much what you're planning to do, give me a shout. The bar is always open aboard our yacht Pagan (we're on a mud berth at Fambridge Yacht Station) and when the sun isn't quite over the yard arm the kettle will be bubbling!

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm I would suggest that a Trident 24 the bilge keel version be large enough for 4 to occasionally sleep on board for short periods, plus not too large for a couple to sail on their own, the bilge keels taking the ground /mud when required.
The Trident has a fwd cabin with two side bunks and a door or curtain to afford some privacy if required, oh, plus a self contained toilet between the fwd and main cabin.

 

[Bru]

I agree with Paul, our twenty two footer was theoretically a four berth. It was somewhat cramped with two, a squash with three and I wouldn't have wanted to try it with four (and we sailed that boat to Chichester and back three handed over a fortnight but that was three blokes, it would have been rather less do-able with a mixed crew)

As Paul says, an idea of budget would help with advise. There are sail-away second hand boats to be had, ready to go (we sold one last year!) but they tend not to be at the bargain basement end of the market

 

[Bru]

Crossing posts again! As it happens, we sold our Sabre 27 to a chap upgrading from a Trident 24 precisely because his wife was finding the Trident 24 too cramped for more than the occasional overnight

The Trident 24 has similar accommodation to our Islander 23 and whilst it's certainly do-able on the smaller boat, the extra three or four feet makes a huge difference in many many ways. More comfort below decks is no bad thing but perhaps of more import, especially for beginners, the slightly bigger boat costs very little extra to run but is significantly more comfortable when you venture out beyond the confines of your home river

In hindsight, I wish we'd bitten the bullet and bought something in the 26' to 28' class to start with as we inevitably "wasted" money on the first boat that could have been spent on the second boat (the next upgrade was triggered by an entirely different and largely non-boat related change in circumstances but for which we'd be happily sailing the twenty seven footer for the forseeable future)

In the Op's shoes, unless money was really tight, I'd hunt up a half decent Westerly Centaur or similar

 

[PetiteFleur]

I'm on the Deben at Felixstowe Ferry, swinging moorings usually available at Felixstowe Ferry Boat Yard(commercial rates), very friendly yard, friendly sailing club. Get your name down for a swinging mooring from the Fairways Committee and you may get one in 2/4? yrs time, current cost £90/yr + cost of laying mooring.
Lots of older boats for not much money, 27-30' will give you 4 berths, don't be put off by the Deben bar, once you've done it 2 or 3 times it's not too bad at all.

 

[Rafiki]

You are getting a lot of good advice on this forum. My twopennyworth is as follows:

1. Join a club now which has moorings. Although there will be a waiting list for the better moorings- based on the number of years of membership, swinging moorings are usually available. Clubs have dinghy storage and of course plenty of other like minded members. They are also a good source of second-hand but well cared for boats. Two on the Orwell well worth looking at are the Royal Harwich and the Orwell Sailing Club
http://orwellyachtclub.org.uk/
The Orwell Sailing Club is probably better for your needs, in particular it caters for more modest size boats and the boats can be kept there, or in their shore side storage all year round, but that isnt the case at Royal Harwich. It's also a lot cheaper !
2. You mention buying a little boat, but later say you want it to have hot water. You will gather from the suggestions for boats that contributors thought you wanted a 22 to 25 foot boat for a very few thousand pounds, prices do increase quite quickly with size, but if you are looking for something comfortable for two and adequate for four with room to have more creature comforts such as hot water ( overrated in my view - a kettle will do!) then you will need to go to 27 to 30foot and maybe £10k to £15k for something nice with updated vitals, (engine, sail, upholstery, rigging instruments). The Westerly Konsort is well worth looking at in that price range

I also drive the Cambridge to Orwell Road, but to me Cambridge is only the mid-point in getting to the Orwell.

Regards

 

[Usangi]

Thank you so much for all the advice everyone. I haven't digested it all yet but just wanted to say that I was sending out a rather confused message. As Onia said, I did mention a little boat and then quickly went onto hot water and talked of larger boats. We've only ever sailed on these larger more luxurious boats (we did our competent crew course on a Hallberg-Rassy) so have been rather spoiled. I think we could probably do without running hot water (and the power shower, gym, home cinema and so forth). But I'm not sure what we do quite want at the moment. It does need to be sail ready, and I think comfortable enough to enjoy spending a rainy (British) summer weekend on it if we can't get much sailing done.

As for budget, we could go potentially go up to about £15K for the right boat. The Westerly Konsort had popped up in my searches a few days ago actually.

I see a couple of mentions of joining a sailing club, and this looks like a great idea. Again, I think we'll make some plans to get up there as soon as possible. The other complication is that we don't actually have a car. We hire them occasionally, but unless we decide to buy one, the easiest option is a train to Ipswich and a taxi.