new,new forum please.

[gjgm]

Can we also have a forum where to post solid arguments for the tax relief (rephrase according to point of view) on red diesel. I still havent heard one.
I ve heard alot of crap:
about job losses,
my twin engined beasty is going to get jolly expensive,
I dont use it on a road
we re entitled to the status quo
it wouldnt raise revenue anyway
I hate Brussels
I blame Blair/Happy1/boat magazine editors
is carrot juice a viable fuel alternative
whats on tv tonight
wheres my beer gone
etc
etc



Im more than happy if UK red diesel continues for leisure boaters, but can someone please come up with a decent argument why....Surely if the EU concept is harmonisation of taxation on fuels, you need to prove justification for exemption.I cant believe anyone is going to pay more than one nanosecond of attention to the reasons offered so far. Is this the best we can do?



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[adarcy]

Re: poss reasons?

Because it simply shouldn't have Road Fund Duty on it

It isn't being used on the roads and road users are already overpaying for the road expenditure. You would have more right to complain if there was a general tax on fossil fuels (and all energy produced from them) plus tax for the roads on road fuel. Unfortunately for the Government, this would demonstrate hypothecation and show how much general taxation was presently being taken on road fuels.
This would also mean that any additional taxation would be shown for what it is - trying to alter peoples behaviour. At present, heating oil, farmers and fisherman also benefit from the derogation - would differential taxes be applied to these?

As a minor point, any diesel used for heating or cooking on boats (sail or motor) should not have "Sea Fund Duty" applied. Therefore, if red diesel goes, will fuel suppliers have to have separate tanks and pumps for fishing vessels and heat and cooking distinct from leisure transport use only facilities? I can't see the cost of this together with the inspections required and the Excise dipping leisure users tanks being small.

A much better way IMHO (assuming the Government just want to raise more stealthy tax) is to do what they did yesterday by raising the duty level on ALL "untaxed" fuel by a bit. This increases return by taxing a smaller amount on a larger basis rather than large amount on a small tax base (which generally induces market distortions) and also addresses the principle of generally taxing a limited resource and encouraging more efficient use again on a wide basis.


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[robind]

why should we have a concession on red diesel?" and how can we explain & support the requirement for it to remain, I think the answer to both these questions was in an earlier post explaining that it wasnt in fact a concession. as boats were not diesel engined road vehicles D.E.R.V. and therefore have been entitled to red diesel at the same price as other non DERVs

"How can we stand by our need to retain the price"? we are British boaters, and as an island we will be needed to support our "state of Europe" in acting as coastal intelligence etc when the Navy and Coastguard are amalgamated with the naval volunteer force (Dads Navy)and eventually become reduced in size and effectiveness.

Our fishing fleet has already been reduced by the EEC to virtually nothing and is certainly not of sufficient size to support our own edible fish requirements (we are an Island after all) so we should insist that finally our government, whichever one it will be, support us or face a very serious downturn in electors at the next General election and the removal of the british boat industry from the face of this Earth.

Somebody asked "has the fuel cost in Holland affected their boat industry"? the answer is no! it hasnt because, metal boat and barge builders and the like, now saturate the UK with their inadequate coastal products. They will feel the pinch however when we are all "burning our boats" as it were.

One further suggestion to add to the lobby an MP campaign. may I suggest that we ( the members of this Forum) purchase a pair of multi sized Dodgers, duly sign written, so that whoever wishes to "photograph Kings reach Tower" may do so, whilst passing the Palace of Westminster wearing a suitable slogun to the effect that the British Boaters will not accept any increase (other than normal inflation) being applied to red diesel. the Winner of the Kings reach photographic section or dressed overall outside Parliament or whatever competition will recieve a number of donated gallons of red diesel (we would of course have a whip round) with of course the true winners being us all.

We could of course have another dodger being carried around the UK coast, rolled up at time of passing as a Batton by participating boats, Gosh I feel a revolution coming on! )) whose going to be first ?

Rob


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[Robih]

I note that you consider my reasoning that "we don't use it on the road" as "Crap". I would argue that:

1) An inflammatory response such as yours is not helpful
2) My reasoning was based on UK law as it currently stands

In addition to arguments needing to be "solid arguments" they also needed to be well presented. Yours is neither.

Rob

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